Thread: When it is not a No.12

Hi Paul,

My work schedule has become a somewhat slower and more routine which has allowed me a little time for saw stuff.

I've measured the hardness of that Simonds No. 5 and it's nothing special. HRC 48.16 with a S.D. of 0.5 compared to the Disston No. 12 dataset average of HRC 52.19 with S.D. 0.172. Still updating, auditing and double checking my worksheet (154 saws now) but the Simonds No. 5 was just a look-alike of the Disston No. 12, nothing more.

Now to try to find the copies made by the other manufacturers you listed above.

Regards,
Rob

I can confirm that this is not a #12
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ddBivRJlEvU

Gavin

Without realising it I think you have solved one of the perennial hand saw mysteries. The hole in the toe of the saw. It is in case you wish to become a saw musician as by the simple addition of a handle you have a musical saw. However, if you have one of these dual purpose saws be very careful to play the right side (smooth side) or else you are going to go through a lot of bows!

Regards
Paul

I notice that the Sandvik Stradivarius Saw is toothed but doesn't have a hole for a handle.
https://www.amazon.com/BAHCO-296-Str.../dp/B002IB1C6K
Does the toothing affect the sound?
Would a #12 sound better than a #120?

I have no idea (about many things) but I particularly looked at the saw the young lady was playing and noticed it was smooth both sides. I think the musical saws I've seen in the past have had a tooth line, but probably unsharpened. It would be interesting to see if Rob Streeper could obtain one to conduct a hardness test for comparison.

I also think that the handle is her modification to make bending to the "S" shape easier. I once saw a Simonds musical saw up for grabs and I put a brake on my addiction. If one came up again I would be interested for the curiosity angle.

Regards
Paul

This is wider inside the grip, like a Wheeller, Madden & Clemson or suchlike ...

That Daryl Weir bloke posted some photos he saved from ebay of a #12 'Disston and Sons' ... with a different, but presumably original, handle.
Cheers,
Paul McGee

#12 special.jpg

Paul

That's a rather special No.12 with the cone head saw screws and no medallion. I am guessing it is very early. The finesse displayed in the handle is particularly noticeable to my mind.

Regards
Paul

Paul

The Disstonian Institute shows pictures of a similar saw and two catalogue entries of 1876 and 1890 ( the latter surprisingly as Disston saws had medallions well before this time) with the raised saw screws and no medallion. With the keystone etch and scales of justice the saw has to be post 1873. The No.12 dates from around 1860 through to 1927. It morphed into the D-12 for 1928.

Regards
Paul

Edit: Disstonian Institute does not show the same saw! Daryl Weir's pix show a saw with a lambs tongue! It still looks good and authentic too.

I remember there being a patent from the 1870's or so showing and covering the truncated cone screws, I'll see if I can find it.

As a matter of course I am always on the lookout for saws that replicate the No.12 and in looking through some advertisements I had saved I found another. This one wears the "Diamond Edge" brand. I suspect it was made by one of the other manufacturers (most likely Disston) as it appears in a 1910 advertisement for Norvell-Shapleigh Hardware Company of St Louis. Normally these saws branded for the store, but made by one of the big three, were medium to low range saws. This company seemed to have some top of the line saws however including a No.12 lookalike at the foot of the page.

1910 Diamond edge[14798].jpg

The DE165 was more expensive than a Disston No.12 of the same era. It is not clear what the finish for dark saw plate was.

Regards
Paul

Originally Posted by pmcgee

That Daryl Weir bloke posted some photos he saved from ebay of a #12 'Disston and Sons' ... with a different, but presumably original, handle.
Cheers,
Paul McGee

#12 special.jpg

Paul,

Those pictures I had on Facebook are actually of two different saws and not just one. Those are the only two No.12's I've seen with the cone or steeple nuts and the lambs tongue.

Take care,
Daryl

As if Geo. H. Bishop making the No.12 wasn't enough, he also made the No.99.

DSC08334.JPGDSC08335.JPG

Originally Posted by Daryl Weir

Paul,

Those pictures I had on Facebook are actually of two different saws and not just one. Those are the only two No.12's I've seen with the cone or steeple nuts and the lambs tongue.

Take care,
Daryl

Just realised that I "thanked" on behalf of my namesake from Western Australia . He won't mind .

Regards
Paul