Thread: Advice on identifying and restoring Disston saw

Originally Posted by Stratman

Well, I nearly got hold of a dozen saws for just over $3.00 each. Missed out by about 30 minutes. I can't stop thinking about it

Thanks again Paul, another several lessons learnt

Regards Adam

Adam

You mentioned a scraper and although I tend not to use that tool, I know that Ian, for one, makes extensive use of the humble scraper so definitely use that if you get good results. He can offer more advice but I am sure he has a number of different sizes designed to get into all the difficult, inner, curved spots

Just on old saws and their acquisition, a while back one of my BILs phoned me to say he was at an auction and there were four piles of saws including a miscellaneous pile of saw related bits and bobs. Was I interested? He was unable to describe them as he knows nothing about saws other than I collect them. So we came to an agreement that we would go to $20 on each pile and $10 on the misc bits and bobs. Unfortunately he was unable to stay for the bidding process and we agreed that he would leave the bids with the auctioneer. My BIL had done this in the past and was quite comfortable leaving it in the hands of the auctioneer.

Well, to cut a long story short I was successful with all four lots, but they all went for the max price I had agreed upon. . Yeah, highly suspicious particularly as when I got the lots, some time later as the BIL lives a long way from me, they were rubbish. From memory there were six or seven saws in each group. They were all from what I call the handyman era (60s, 70s & 80s) and there was nothing that would not be consigned to being a scraper.

Ironically it was the bits and bobs pile that had the only things of interest. There was a small awl and a Robert Sorby panel saw. The saw did not go well during the restoration process as the teeth broke while setting it, something I have rarely had trouble with. I ended up giving it to a good friend and Forum member when he returned to the US. He liked the kangaroos on it because they reminded him of his time in Oz, but I did explain that it was not made in Australia. This is a link to the saw with what turned out to be an unrealistic expectation of what it was worth :

Robert Sorby Kangaroo panel saw

The point I am making here is that probably nine out of ten saws (this is a conservative estimate) you see in garage sales or in antique shops are not worth getting out of bed for, so don't be too distressed that you "missed out." Without a close look at the saws, it may have been a blessing in disguise. I particularly focus on the Simonds brand, but I have only once myself sourced a Simonds in Australia and that turned out to be a lack lustre example. I have a couple more Simonds that came from Oz via other people. Of course you are more likely to turn up a Disston, but you need to know that it hails from before the time when Disston sold out to HK Porter. A study of the Disstonian website will bring you up to speed on that aspect. Tasmania and New Zealand seem to be more fertile hunting grounds than mainland Australia.

Don't give up though. There is a gem out there with "Adam" written on it: The ink is indelible so it won't be easy to spot .

Regards
Paul

Thanks Paul, I managed to get most of the inside finish off with a scraper and the cloth backed sandpaper did the trick for the remaining. I put a 12" metal ruler in the kerf and it clamped up nicely! Thanks again for the tip, Paul.

It took a while (probably about an hour) but I was pleased with the final result. Again, I can see how the end grain has remained a bit blotchy but this is a vintage saw after all and I think I should leave it with a little bit of its 'heritage'. It's nice and smooth now (used 400 for final sanding, guess that's more than enough) and most of the dings and dents have either been sanded out or steamed out with an iron.

I'll have to post the photos tonight as I forgot to last night and ended up going to bed quite early.

Gee, I see what you mean by maybe 1-in-10 saws being any good. That was some hard luck. You'd think there would have been at least a couple in that lot that were ok. At least you got something out of it!

This particular seller said most were from around the 50s (but that could have been 60s or later even) and a couple that were pre-1928. Not sure how he knew that but maybe he was right. Possibly not! And there was only the one photo, which didn't tell me anything. If there was only the one decent one, $40 would have been ok. Anyway, I've still passed on my details to the woman who he sold them to just asking if I could take a look when she's back from holiday. Will wait and see and while I'm waiting will study up a bit so I know a little about what I'm looking for. Her little section of the antiques store didn't have any other tools so I don't think she'd know much about them. Hopefully she doesn't, assuming there's one or two decent ones in there.

I won't be giving up... I'm addicted now, thanks to you lot! ))

Regards Adam

Adam, it's pretty easy to spot a pre-WW2 saw from several metres away when you know what to look for! The first thing you'll notice will be an interesting handle, with a few flourishes like the little 'wave' of wood on top - more defined than on post-1950s handles, or maybe some 'wheat' carving on the grip & cheeks. The grip has rounded edges that look a bit more comfy to hang onto compared with the more square-edged efforts of the late 50s & onwards. The shape of handles was highly standardised from around the mid 1800s to the 1930s, but after that began to degenerate into the handle-like things you see now, or worse, started morphing into plastic (urk!) in the 1950s.

When you pick the saw up, look first for blades that are taper-ground, i.e., thicker along the tooth line than the back. Taper grinding & proper tensioning also went extinct in the latter half of last century (ok, there's been a small revival of late, but I doubt many of these have hit the pre-loved market yet).

Tensioning is a bit more challenging for a newbie to assess, but a well-tensioned blade has a springy feel - non-tensioned saws feel stiff but 'dead'. One of our 'regulars' here picks them by the sound they make when tapped, so if you have a musical ear, that's a useful guide. Popular lore says a good saw should be able to be bent until the tip of the blade touches the handle, then spring back to dead straight on release (better not to apply that test until you own the saw, though either way, you might end up owning a saw with a short blade ). Needless to say, the blade should be straight & free of kinks & cracks. Small kinks can be fixed easily enough if you know how to go about it, but better avoided at this stage of your sawyer career.

The condition of the teeth is not very important - many old saws look like broken-down horses' mouths due to less-than-skillful attempts at sharpening. I would expect to have to straighten up & reform the teeth on just about any old saw I find, nowadays. However, if there are several missing or cracked teeth, it suggests the saw plate is very brittle - some saws were not meant to be set and were made harder than usual, but silly folk (like me, in my ignorance many years ago) persist in trying to do so, with the result the teeth break off. While such saws can be resurrected & could serve you well if properly treated (you could say they are the forerunners of the impulse-hardened saws of today), they may be a bit too fussy for a newbie, so unless you want to put it aside for a few years until you have the knowledge & confidence to tackle it, best put that one down & leave it for someone else to deal with.

If the teeth are all there, but all over the place in height & size, as is often the case, that's the least of your worries. I expect any old saw I acquire is going to need a good jointing, tooth-re-form & sharpening. Commercial sharpeners don't do a very good job on crosscut teeth, in my experience, largely because the staff spend their days loading machines & very few hand-sharpen anything any more. However, there are exceptions, & still a few people around who can do the job, so don't rule that avenue out completely. In any case, if you have a very badly-filed saw with teeth all over the place, at least a machine will re-cut the teeth straight & clean & give you a great place to start working on it with the file. Filing a crosscut saw takes quite a bit of practice to do well, but it's a skill worth acquiring if you have the patience. There is nothing quite as satisfying as using a good & well-sharpened saw - at least as good as, if not better than, the feel of a well-tuned plane, imo.

Look for an etch - almost exclusively on the side of the blade that you see when holding the saw (right way up) with the handle in your right hand & the blade facing you. If the saw is in spanking condition like your little beauty above, the etch will be very obvious, but if it is obscured by 'patina' you'll have to work a bit harder to make it out. Anything that says, "Disston", "Simonds" or "Atkins" is worth pursuing, so if the blade is in good shape, with little or no rust pitting, there's a very good chance you're holding a good saw in your hands, so if you think they're asking a reasonable price, go for it.

There, armed with that much knowledge, you can't go wrong......

Cheers,

P.S. no need to go hog wild unless you want to join the ranks of the collectors, like Paul. I'm a keen user of hand-powered saws, but my needs are well served by 4 'full-sized' saws (i.e. 26" & 28") and two panel saws. These span tooth pitches from 3/5 for my big thumb-hole ripsaw to 10tpi on the panel saws and that covers all my needs nicely.

Don't ask me about how many backsaws I have, though......

Thanks Ian. This is very helpful. Very

It's interesting that saws in general were so specific in some ways to the period. It makes the whole aspect of acquiring saws a little less daunting in some ways. Although I can imagine it's a real 'mine field' out there.

In case you hadn't noticed , my interest in saws has grown exponentially since posting and I'm starting to see and appreciate what you (and Paul) are saying and explaining to me in your posts (and these posts have literally 'blown me away', to be frank).

I can see lots of 'vintage' saws with square, chunky, unrefined handles for sale and not very many worth pursuing at all. Must be less than 1/10, Paul!

But I can feel more confident now, looking for what I need or what interests me. You should know that I do like to collect things that I'm interested in . Guess there's not much hope!

This really is such an excellent post, Ian! I can't thank you enough. Another post that has consolidated all the scattered bits of info I've tried to put together to make sense of the whole saw world. Brilliant stuff!

Here's the handle now, sanded to 400 grit. It feels very smooth to me, and looked good briefly after wiping away most of the sawdust with some metho. There's the odd bit of colour still remaining but I'll stop there I think.

Still waiting for the files to arrive. Don't expect them for a week or so at least. Tick... Tick... Tick... Lol

20190329_194800.jpg20190329_194743.jpg

Thanks again Ian!
Regards Adam

P. S. How many backsaws do you have, Ian?

Ian and Paul

What would you think of a good quality Danish oil (Rustins - tung oil based) and finishing off with wax/buffing? I've used this product for quite a few things and like how they've turned out. Plus it's very easy to apply . Not sure for saw handles though and if I'd want the finish to penetrate the handle or just seal like shellac?

Regards Adam

Y'know Adam, that handle looks like American Walnut in your pics. It's unlikely that it is, but the grain pattern is very Walnut-like, & not like I'd expect for Apple, which is usually very even & lacking in the sort of growth-ring markings I see there. I'd never bet good money on ID'ing a wood from a picture, but it's a thought...

An oil/wax finish would be my choice, for an old handle, that's exactly what I use, in fact. Easy to apply, looks good, & easy to repair if it gets damaged - what's not to like? The Tung based oils are supposed to be less darkening of the wood than the Linseed-based oils.

My favoured finish for new handles is Shellawax, rubbed in as if you were French-polishing, then buffed off on a cloth wheel. It suits some woods better than others; works a treat on She-oaks & the dry-country Acacias, but is probably a bit too 'non-traditional' for an old saw.

Cheers,

That's interesting, Ian. I wonder what it is. Of course, I have no idea. I've seen walnut quite a few times on my 'internet woodworking' travels. Never in person. I'd say this handle feels quite light. The same (or less!?) than a similarly sized piece of radiata pine, if that sheds any light.

Another mystery to this saw

Oil/wax it is. Thanks Ian. Sounds good to me. One coat done last night. It's a little cool here this weekend so I've brought it inside and will do a second coat tonight.

20190330_221010.jpg

Regards Adam

Now that’s looking pretty, even with its beauty spot.
Well done Adam, an when does the next saw requiring some attention arrive on the workbench.
Unless you have fallen right down the rabbit hole and are considering making a saw from scratch.
Now there is an itch that never stops.

Cheers Matt.

Originally Posted by Stratman

That's interesting, Ian. I wonder what it is....
I'd say this handle feels quite light. The same (or less!?) than a similarly sized piece of radiata pine, if that sheds any light....

Actually, now you've got a coat of oil on it & a slightly sharper pic., I wish to recant! It looks more like Apple than Walnut, now, particularly the top 1/4 of the handle. Apple would've been a safer bet for a Disston of the era, anyway. I rarely try to id wood from pictures, & when I do, I'm wrong at least 50% of the time...

Apple is usually moderately dense, but the figures I just found on a quick look-up give a range of density from 0.65 to 0.85. Radiata was given as having a top of 0.55, so the two woods don't normally overlap, but if your handle is on the low side for density, it would be pretty close to 'heavy' radiata.

Whatever, it's looking good, & apart from the bullet-hole, is in spanking condition for its age. After another coat of oil, I'd let it dry thoroughly (~ week depending on weataher & the actual oil), then give it a good rub over with 0000 steel wool & paste wax. That should give it a nice soft lustre and make it very tactile....

Cheers,

Originally Posted by IanW

Actually, now you've got a coat of oil on it & a slightly sharper pic., I wish to recant! It looks more like Apple than Walnut, now, particularly the top 1/4 of the handle. Apple would've been a safer bet for a Disston of the era, anyway. I rarely try to id wood from pictures, & when I do, I'm wrong at least 50% of the time...



Whatever, it's looking good, & apart from the bullet-hole, is in spanking condition for its age. After another coat of oil, I'd let it dry thoroughly (~ week depending on weataher & the actual oil), then give it a good rub over with 0000 steel wool & paste wax. That should give it a nice soft lustre and make it very tactile....

Cheers,

Ian

I thought Apple too, but didn't like to say. wink! (emojis not available from this computer).

Bullet hole! What was it? A 50 cal? ( smile)

To be authentic the handle would be finished in gloss varnish, but to my mind it is a harsh and unforgiving treatment. The oiled and buffed surface is more tactile and I think looks better.

Regards
Paul

Thanks Matt. Gives it some character (and mystery...just how did it get there or why!?)

Ha! Yes I've been actively looking for some more saws. No luck so far, but I'll keep going. It's been very satisfying restoring this so far.

After looking at Ian's article, I'm bloody tempted to go that way...might need to actually practise my sawing a bit first though

Regards Adam

Thanks Ian, I guess that would seem logical then. I've been trying to find out more on the Canadian versions of this saw, specifically the handle, but not having much luck so I'll call it Apple (with an injury!)

I've given it another coat now, so will do as you suggest and leave it a week, just to be safe. I've been wiping off the excess thoroughly, but it still does seem to take a while to completely get rid of the tackiness. Patience for me...

I think I'll like the softer lustre and feel too, thanks Ian!

Regards Adam

I agree, Paul - the gloss doesn't do it for me either. Oil and buffed it will be

Regards Adam

Matt! Thank you very much - the sawset arrived in the mail this morning!

This was really generous of you to do this, I'm very grateful

Just need those files to arrive (hopefully this week) and I can complete the restoration of this saw.

Can't wait...

Regards Adam