Thread: Advice on identifying and restoring Disston saw

Originally Posted by IanW

Well, that's your USERS, Paul, wot about the "collectibles"....... ?

And shhh!, we won't mention the couple that are awaiting refurbishment before finding good homes....

Ahem! I was wondering who would pick up on my small omission: An understandable mistake....

Yeah, there are some more, but not for this thread.

I like the specific purpose saws. Easily justifiable for a start. That Budgeroo handle with it's tight figure is the perfect handle timber. Beautiful.

Regards
Paul

Thanks Matt

I appreciate that. However, my offer still stands Seriously, I would like to restore a saw or two for you. Up to you...

Now, onto this other matter of 'saw '... shame on you both! You're both like peddlers/pushers and you are getting me hooked. What chance do I have now!?!?

They're some great collections though.

Paul "I count five" - now there's a case of 'denial' if ever I've heard one They look great in the cabinet. The handles look gorgeous.

My files arrived today. Finally! So now to dig out one of my dad's old 70s/80s saws. Think he has a S&J one that shouldn't mind me taking to it. Pretty positive it was bought in the 70s/80s so I don't think I'll be practising on anything worth restoring.

Regards
Adam

Originally Posted by Stratman

Paul "I count five" - now there's a case of 'denial' if ever I've heard one They look great in the cabinet. The handles look gorgeous.

My files arrived today. Finally! So now to dig out one of my dad's old 70s/80s saws. Think he has a S&J one that shouldn't mind me taking to it. Pretty positive it was bought in the 70s/80s so I don't think I'll be practising on anything worth restoring.

Regards
Adam

Adam

I take my inspiration from Admiral Nelson.

All the best for the filing.

Regards
Paul

Shame on you too, Ian... another 'pusher'...lol

Seriously though, those handles are stunning. Are the first two Buloke? How were they to shape? I have some Buloke and I've used it for mitre splines and when I ripped a 'cheek' to thickness for the splines, the face left by the saw was practically smooth - could barely see the saw marks.

That third one is indeed spectacular!

Regards Adam

Originally Posted by IanW

But wait, what's that old saying about people who live in glass houses should draw curtains before removing trousers? I see about a dozen saws in your user till, whereas my 'users' sprawl over two cupboards & the count easily tops 20.

Ian

The one-eyed count is a little less than with both eyes, which I put at eighteen. You may recall that not all are immediately visible.

Regards
Paul

Originally Posted by Simplicity

It does seem we putting all our attention on just one steel room Paul,

But then I shouldn’t be throwing stones [emoji849].

Cheers Matt,

Matt

Actually..... The pictured saw till is not in the steel room. It is in the wooden room with one wall still to be built!!!

(Smiley face)


Regards
Paul

Originally Posted by Bushmiller

.....That Budgeroo handle with it's tight figure is the perfect handle timber. Beautiful...

Not only spectacularly figured, Paul, it was a lovely piece of wood to work and easy to finish. I found nothing at all to dislike about it. Wish I had a cubic metre of the stuff.

Originally Posted by Stratman

Shame on you too, Ian... another 'pusher'...lol ....

True, Adam, I was being altogether too smug. I was just trying to defend myself before Paul (who has seen my saw cupboards) got in first...

Originally Posted by Stratman

...... Are the first two Buloke? How were they to shape? I have some Buloke and I've used it for mitre splines and when I ripped a 'cheek' to thickness for the splines, the face left by the saw was practically smooth - could barely see the saw marks.....

No, the first one is Rose or Eastern She-oak (Allocasuarina torulosa). A little less dense & hard than Bull oak, and a much paler shade of brown. Sometimes, especially when freshly-cut, the heartwood is quite reddish, hence the 'rose' in one of its common names.

The second is 'Hairy' or 'Flame' oak (A. inophloia). It actually grows side be side with Bull oak in many places. It's also a bit less dense than B.O., and considerably easier to work with than either B.O or S.O. It planes, saws & rasps way easier than the other two. Its only drawback is that it seems to be the preferred tucker for a couple of species of nasty wood-munching creatures that know just where to bore their holes to ruin the best parts of the tree!

Bull oak can be variable from tree to tree & district to district, judging by the small amount I've had from 3 widely-separated localities. One tree I scored from northern Victoria had the most beautiful, fine-grained wood, with quite small medullary rays and it turned very easily, with nice long shavings peeling off the skew, and a form of chattoyance on the polished surface. Some is more akin to cast iron, and comes off as powder whatever tool is applied to it. It will usually plane ok (but dulls blades very quickly), and shaping with a decent rasp presents no particular difficulties. I've made quite a few handles from it, & despite its hardness, I find it very easy to sand, & it takes an excellent finish, so it's well worth the effort it takes to beat it into submission.... BO halfback.jpg



Cheers,

True, Adam, I was being altogether too smug. I was just trying to defend myself before Paul (who has seen my saw cupboards) got in first...

Hehe... let the 'kerf wars' begin

Ah okies dokes. So they're different species of the same genus. Very similar in look. Here's a piece of what I think is Buloke. Perhaps it's not! I don't have very much of it and it was left in my shed by the previous owner. Definitely darker in the first pic. The second shows where I ripped with a saw and how smooth it is. But the medullary rays seemed similar to me, hence my confusion. Looking at them now, they're quite different.
20190410_071640.jpg20190410_071650.jpg

And I just provided you with another excuse to show off another saw! Very nice, Ian!

I didn't get hold of a practice saw but will venture out on the weekend and see what I can find. I'm hesitant to attempt the Disston until I've at least got some confidence that I won't stuff it up too much. The suggestion of a practice saw is definitely the 'go' for me.

Regards Adam

Adam

I am not sure on your timbers. The first pic seems to have a type of "lace" to it, but I am poor on timber identification.

This thread may shed some light, but my cautionary note is that timber is extremely variable even in the same species.

Casuarina identification. Hairy Oak/Bull Oak

Regards
Paul

Thanks Paul, I'll take look.

Regards Adam

. IanW .....No, the first one is Rose or Eastern She-oak (Allocasuarina torulosa). A little less dense & hard than Bull oak, and a much paler shade of brown. Sometimes, especially when freshly-cut, the heartwood is quite reddish, hence the 'rose' in one of its common names.

The second is 'Hairy' or 'Flame' oak (A. inophloia). It actually grows side be side with Bull oak in many places. It's also a bit less dense than B.O., and considerably easier to work with than either B.O or S.O. It planes, saws & rasps way easier than the other two. Its only drawback is that it seems to be the preferred tucker for a couple of species of nasty wood-munching creatures that know just where to bore their holes to ruin the best parts of the tree!

Bull oak can be variable from tree to tree & district to district, judging by the small amount I've had from 3 widely-separated localities. One tree I scored from northern Victoria had the most beautiful, fine-grained wood, with quite small medullary rays and it turned very easily, with nice long shavings peeling off the skew, and a form of chattoyance on the polished surface. Some is more akin to cast iron, and comes off as powder whatever tool is applied to it. It will usually plane ok (but dulls blades very quickly), and shaping with a decent rasp presents no particular difficulties. I've made quite a few handles from it, & despite its hardness, I find it very easy to sand, & it takes an excellent finish, so it's well worth the effort it takes to beat it into submission....

Hi Ian, Adam & Paul ,

Hope you don't mind my butting in to this discussion, more as a woodie who enjoys wood diversity of properties (not as a tool maker, handsaw user or restorer). Be assured though that I DO admire the devotion and skills you show and share.

Thanks for your comments Ian re the woods you used, especially the she oaks and bull oaks you used. Makes sense based on my own experience cutting them.

The Budgeroo you used on the saw handle is most beautiful! Though high in silica this wood cuts and finishes well.

Should I "chance upon" some nice handle wood, what sizes and qualities do you need prefer for a saw handle? Understanding that the saws I see vary in function, size, their handles designs and sizes also vary. Some idea would help me with my offerings.

Matt's comments on identifying wood from the pics is indeed difficult and fraught with risk ... a "mugs game" as a member called it. Its not easy and full of flaws when guessing from not ideal pics. Most pics need to be good and show close up figure end grain on clean finish eg planed

Thanks guys, enjoying your amusing exchanges

Euge

Well Paul, I have to disagree with Old Croc on the id of your knife handlein the thread you pointed to. I agree with Dai Sensai that it's more likely hairy oak. I won't bet money on id'ing wood from a picture, but the Hairy oak we got from up your way had two distinctive features I've not seen on any other she-oaks. The first is evident on the tangential surface shown on your handles, and that is the 'blunt' ends of the medullary rays. If you compare the HO with a known Buloke sample, you'll see that BO rays have much more taper. Maybe I notice such things because in my old day job, we often had to take note of the ends of (rod-like) bacteria to see how blunt or tapered they were, it was a way of distinguishing the nasty bug what causes Anthrax from its less nasty relatives.

The other feature is the end-grain pattern. HO has a very distinct 'spider web' pattern, formed by the pores between the rays. Here are 4 different "oaks": End grains.jpg

Left to right these are: Bull, Hairy, Rose & River oak. The looping of the pores between rays is much more pronounced in the H.O. than the other 3.

And one very noticeable feature when I have to do anything with them is that HO is far & away easier to plane, chisel or turn than any Bo I've struck. It's quite soft compared with either Rose or Bull oak. River oak is variable, wood from the outer trunk, or from young trees can be softer still, but heartwood from old trees is just as recalcitrant as the others. So I reckon I could settle the matter with my pocket knife, but but I suspect you might object to my whittling a bit off your handle.....

Sratman, to give a useful opinion on your chunk, I'd first like to know its provenance. There are only a couple of she-oaks native to Taswegia, & the largest of these seems to be drooping sheoak (Allocasuarina verticillata) which at 4-7m high won't yield much in the way of lumber. Your chunk looks like it has come from a bigger tree than that, so it's possibly an import from the mainland, which means it could be from anywhere. But who knows, it could've come from a street or garden planting of seed brought from over the drain. Based on the picture, I would suggest Forest She-oak (A. torulosa) or the Western Australian version (A. fraseriana) or possibly River oak (Cas. cunninghamiana) rather than Bull oak, because the rays don't look large enough & it's too pale. However, a pic can be very misleading, so I wouldn't bet even half a stubby on it. Bull oak is amongst our densest timbers, but Forest oak is almost as hard & dense so just hefting it won't tell you much, either.

Apologies if all I've done is muddy the water for you.....
Cheers,

Originally Posted by Euge

......Should I "chance upon" some nice handle wood, what sizes and qualities do you need prefer for a saw handle? Understanding that the saws I see vary in function, size, their handles designs and sizes also vary. Some idea would help me with my offerings......

That would be fine jolly splendid, Euge. Whatever the saw, you can get a 'normal' sized handle (i.e. a handle for a normal-sized hand!) from a piece about 125mm wide and at least 150mm long, but preferably 180. A little wider & longer allows more wriggle room to take advantage of grain patters or avoid small flaws like knots or insect damage. Figured woods are highly desirable, but the patterns should be "tight" so that you get a reasonable representation on the smallish areas of the handle. Anyway, thanks for the thought, I am trying to avoid making any more saws, but I find it hard to resist a very nice piece of wood, so I'm sure I could be tempted, and we could reach some mutually satisfactory agreenent re monetary or other compensation.
I'll drop you a PM with my email & we can correspond that way, with pictures!

Originally Posted by Euge

...... Matt's comments on identifying wood from the pics is indeed difficult and fraught with risk ... a "mugs game" as a member called it. Its not easy and full of flaws when guessing from not ideal pics. Most pics need to be good and show close up figure end grain on clean finish eg planed.....

Amen. And it was most likely me wot called it a 'mug's game. I do so frequently, but still occasionally offer a (very tentative) opinion......

Cheers,

In reference to the older link to the knife handle Paul (and I have supplied hundreds of knife handle woods over the years) my money is on hairy oak as well. I was too, “reserved" to comment then.

Not sure about " fine jolly splendid” Ian but its good to have another outlet for some short figured or nice boards instead of box lids or pen blanks. Thanks for the size suggestions and I imagine 30 mm thickness is ideal. Casuarinas are always appealing to me as well.

I wonder of you have tried Swamp Oak (Casuarina obesa ). I find it pretty and different for a casuarina, more than the usual rays. Maybe I should post a small slab, suitable for a handle to tempt others as well. Maybe your protégés might appreciate it if you are loosing interest or avoiding handles. I find cutting woods during my Grand Divestment provides me with stimulation to research more about woods and write about them in an opinionated way (), less so for money which my dentist is rewarded by.