Thread: Axe talk

The two double-bitters have arrived from the US.

Their bit geometry is much closer to Hook's ideal than the Kelly's. Maybe it's an American thing. Also in the mail was a Hultafors 1.5 kg felling axe from the UK that I had high hopes for but the profile is some way off the ideal. Back to the grind on that one but the 'back stabbers' are first in the queue.

They need a bit of slimming down behind the edge and the Kelly is going to need jointing and regrinding to get rid of a decent sized nick. This is the way I'm going about it with the Collins ...

Collins head on belt sander 2.jpgCollins head on belt sander.jpg

Ern invited me in another thread to post something here about my Japanese carpenter's axe.

J-carpenters axe adj.jpg J-carpenters axe - bit profile.JPG

The head weighs 1.1kg and is constructed with two steels; I believe the cutting edge is Hitachi white steel and the surrounding metal is soft iron. You can see the lamination line between the two metals in the 1st photo above. I estimate the white steel cutting edge is tempered somewhere about 60Rc. The carpenter's axe profile (we call them bearded axes in the west) allows it to be held right up behind the head for precise cuts, as well as more lusty strikes with the axe held two-handed near the end of the handle. This axe has a splitting maul bit profile (2nd photo) and that is the way I use it, primarily for secondary splitting after I have done the bulk of the damage with my large 4kg splitting maul (3rd photo). Why wield a big heavy one when a much smaller one will complete the task.

splitting maul adj.jpg splitting maul - head.JPG

I use a smaller, yet again, Hultafors Bruks hatchet for trimming off (ergo cutting, not splitting) any small side twigs and knots (4th photo).

Hults Bruk hatchet.JPG

I have a Hyest 4-1/2lb axe that I rarely ever use as I don't have much call for cutting with a full size axe. I use a variety of saws for that; ranging from my biggest Husky chainsaw down through to various one-person hand saws. I hand saw a lot of my firewood... that way I get heated twice by my firewood!

Perhaps off-topic, but I also have a Japanese adze. Same two-metal construction as my carpenter's axe. I was unsure before I acquired these if the high tempered steel edge would survive our very hard woods, as most Japanese woods a relatively soft compared to our woods here. So far I haven't experienced any chipping, but I am careful with them. They do retain there sharpness well beyond any of my western blades, however, when sharp you are at risk of doing yourself some very serious harm with them.

J-adze.JPG

Thanks for those pics Neil. I've been following this thread and your post has prompted me to show my Japanese Carpenters Axe.
It is a bit smaller than yours. The head weighs around 0.5 kgs.
I keep it pretty sharp and I used the axe like a scalpel to cut the leather for the cover. My wife thinks I'm weird. She doesn't understand

Originally Posted by NCArcher

.... I've been following this thread and your post has prompted me to show my Japanese Carpenters Axe.
It is a bit smaller than yours. The head weighs around 0.5 kgs.
I keep it pretty sharp and I used the axe like a scalpel to cut the leather for the cover. My wife thinks I'm weird. She doesn't understand

Nice sized carpenter's hatchet you have there NCArcher.

Yes, when sharp they will slice through leather... and fingers...

In self defence I wear shin guards when I'm wielding mine.

To what grit size do you take your edge?

Sharp tends to be a male thing.

Originally Posted by NCArcher

My wife thinks I'm weird. She doesn't understand

You too?

Heheh.

Mine doesn't comment on my interests. This one however has raised an eyebrow.

Originally Posted by NeilS

To what grit size do you take your edge?

To be honest, I cant remember how i sharpened it last time.(it was in storage for a while) It may have been on the Tormek and then honed on the leather wheel which i think is equivalent to around 8000-10000 grit.

Originally Posted by NCArcher

... equivalent to around 8000-10000 grit.

Interesting, that is quite a fine grit.

I take my kitchen knives and woodworking blades up beyond that, but have only been going up to a #1,000 waterstone with the J-axe and J-adz. So far I have not found the need to go higher and I'm reticent about using my finer waterstones on such hefty blades, but if I had a Tormek that is one use I might put it to.

What about leather on a paddle with some CrOx Neil?

Can I ask you about your Hultafors? What's the steel like? I find mine absorbs a bit of water if it's around but more irritating it holds resin. Solvent doesn't loosen it.

....

For anyone looking at a portable belt sander for bit reprofiling, Bunnings has Zirconium belts in a number of sizes from #36 to #120. The joins are thinned so they run quite smoothly. The #36 is a titan for rough shaping.
The Sandpaper Man has belts up to #320.

Originally Posted by rsser

What about leather on a paddle with some CrOx Neil?

That would be a good solution if you are off grid and feel the need to take the edge to a finer grit. I have a felt wheel loaded with CrOx in my workshop that does that job quite quickly. I don't finish edges on it because of the tendency of the edge profile to get rounded over from the give in the felt (the same on leather wheel), but it is very good for cleaning up and polishing surfaces. The polished area on the HB hatchet in the photo posted above will have been done on the CrOx wheel.

I will have to say that I haven't felt the need to take the J-axe above #1000. Even after a splitting session this week it still feels very sharp and liable to cut me if I let it slip while handling it. Here is the paper cut test.

Of course, it would have made a much cleaner slice through the paper before I had split a couple of wheel barrows loads of seasoned blue gum and stringy bark with it...

Originally Posted by rsser

Can I ask you about your Hultafors? What's the steel like? I find mine absorbs a bit of water if it's around but more irritating it holds resin. Solvent doesn't loosen it.

Ern, I haven't noticed the HB being any more prone to damp or resin that any of my other axes, but I should have been more precise; that HB axe is a pre-1988 Hults Bruk before Hultafors acquired them. There is a subtle difference in the stamp used for the axes produced under Hultafors. Hults Bruk still make the axes for Hultafors, but perhaps the steel or process has changed under the new parent company.

I find the soft iron on the Japanese axe and adz the most susceptible to corrosion. I give them a liberal wipe over with camellia oil after sharpening and that helps resist corrosion, particularly while in storage between uses.

I would try oven cleaner if nothing else will shift the resin. I find that works on the resin buildup on the wheels of my bandsaw, but I don't know what that would do to the axe metal.

Thanks Neil.

Nice edge!

Sounds as if Hultafors is like grandpa's axe. Same crowd since 1697, only ....

I do like mine to swing. Nice balance, size and feel. My right swings are pretty accurate, left not so hot.

One day when I'm out with the 4WD club facing a barrier across a mountain track (and I'll pick the log!) I plan to be through it with the axe while the chainsaw guy is still getting set up.

Meantime, the Collins double-bit head is close to final fitting. Some believe that once that's done it should be soaked in a mix of BLO and kero in order to swell the fibres of the haft in the eye.

Originally Posted by rsser

.... Some believe that once that's done it should be soaked in a mix of BLO and kero in order to swell the fibres of the haft in the eye.

I guess that's a reasonable theory, on the face of it, Ern, but I can think of a few ifs & buts. So you swell the fibres initially, but what happens when your magic expansion potion 'dries' and the swollen fibres shrink? If the initial swelling exceeded the elastic limit of the wood, the fibres will have crushed & you'll still end up with a loose handle, methinks. If the handle is fitted when it's at median MC, & wedged firmly but not excessively, the elasticity of the wood should cope with drier & wetter weather - just how much drier and wetter depends on the elasticity of the wood you use. If you live in a climate with extreme ambient moisture cycles (as you do!), you need a wood that can cope with quite a lot of expansion without crushing, if it's to remain tight when bone-dry again.

I reckon one of the reasons Hickory is so good for handles is because it can tolerate more pressure without crushing compared with woods like Spotted gum, thanks to its structure. I've fitted quite a few handles in my time, using (mostly wooden) wedges, and the majority stayed put for the life of the handle (which I'll admit was often brief, in my younger & more enthusiastic days). None of the Hickory handles I've fittted to axes & hammers have given any trouble at all, which may, of course, be due simply to luck and small sample size rather than my skill.

You stand a good chance of beating the bloke with the chainsaw on the first cut if you pick your log, as you say, (both for easy chopping & a position that makes sawing trickier than chopping). And a better chance again, if he's got a cranky starter & it's a cold, wet day......

Cheers,

Originally Posted by rsser

Meantime, the Collins double-bit head is close to final fitting. Some believe that once that's done it should be soaked in a mix of BLO and kero in order to swell the fibres of the haft in the eye.

Ern

The Japanese use that technique for securing their hammer (gennou) heads, but with one important difference.

As Ian has pointed out, once the BLO dries out you are back to sqaure one in terms of tightness. The Japanese get around this problem by compressing the fibers of the handle first (by hammering I think, but Neil is the expert in that direction) and then force the head on using an interference fit. It is at that point the hammer is soaked in BLO to swell the fibres. Presumably it has to have further periodic soakings to maintain the volume of the timber in the hammer head and the firm fit.

On the subject of treatment of axe handles, I remember a bloke who had worked in timber mills in the Warialda region telling me that they soaked all their axe handles in an oil bath for about a year before they were used. I think they had to let them dry out before use as I think they probably only used sump oil or similar. He maintained that the handles had much more whip in them and were less likely to fracture. I don't think they followed this practice because of any peculiar fetish.

Regards
Paul

Yeah, I reckon there are a few fetishes around. Eg. some swear by bee's wax as their rust prevention strategy. No, as the strategy actually. Well, anything will work if you apply it often enough. US bushies like bee's wax and linseed oil for handles Paul. Has to be linseed.

Good points about a BLO job. What if the solids remaining are somewhat elastic? Water repellent? - so it works only because it seals. And if it fails, it wasn't EMC differences it was that bad bit of hickory, the dodgy wedge, abuse by the junior.

Bernie Weisgerber of An Ax to Grind fame recommends Swel-Lock. Sounds like that Chair Doctor goo.

As for hickory's properties, I was gobsmacked by how it hung on when I was working to remove a stub from one of the imported heads. Despite four drill holes to relieve it, it still took a good deal of tapping out with a drift.

Interesting about spring in a handle Paul. Hook Cook reckons that's about the only benefit of using a curved one. The downsides are potentially greater weakness for lack of as much continuous grain as a straight handle plus exaggeration of deviation at the bit when the wrists are rotated a bit out. He seems to think a faun's foot was an experiment that went feral. Well, we know all about that.

As for barriers out the bush, on the last club trip we were blocked by a decent log across a cutting. Now two of us got our saws stuck as the thing had lots of cracks lengthwise and a cut turned it into multiple logs. It took a jack, a 3rd saw, a hatchet and a hammer to sort that out. Yes Ian, just a fouled plug would have given an axeman (with several hours) the podium there with the uncosted benefits of exercise, fresh air and a lot of ragging .