Thread: Work bench advice please?

Originally Posted by johnredl

I've found a couple of different options for timber use, and I was hoping that I can get some advice.

1) Found 6 x 3m (ish) lengths of 100x100 Jarrah that came from an 80 yo house. $180 lot

2) Huge pile of Hardwood most of which are Jarrah, in 1500 lengths of 100x50 that are only $3 each. I thought that I can glue them so that they are 100 high and 50 wide, and make the bench that way.

Now I know that the easiest way to do this is to use the long lengths and glue them together, but as Groggy once said why do it easy if there is a more complicated way of doing it?

Thoughts?

If you decide to go the Jarrah route, noting Ian's advice regarding timber colour, then with option 1) you would be using about $130 worth of timber for the bench top, versus $50 for option 2). Both are very economical choices - and $80 difference in costs is not a deal breaker.

With modern glues (eg epoxy) strength is not any issue but the greater number of pieces in option 2) doubles the risk of alignment errors, and you'd have to ensure that butt joins did not impact on the vises, dog holes, etc.

If the quality of the timber is the same, I think I would prefer option 1) - nice long pieces of Jarrah.

Cheers

Graeme

Originally Posted by GraemeCook

If you decide to go the Jarrah route, noting Ian's advice regarding timber colour, then with option 1) you would be using about $130 worth of timber for the bench top, versus $50 for option 2). Both are very economical choices - and $80 difference in costs is not a deal breaker.

With modern glues (eg epoxy) strength is not any issue but the greater number of pieces in option 2) doubles the risk of alignment errors, and you'd have to ensure that butt joins did not impact on the vises, dog holes, etc.

If the quality of the timber is the same, I think I would prefer option 1) - nice long pieces of Jarrah.

Cheers

Graeme

Oh...yes...I didn't think of dog hole placements. I have a Hopaz style bench saved in sketchup, so I might have a play around with that and see where the joints end up. But your right, $80 extra over a estimated 50 year investment is not a huge amount. Good advice thanks

Goodness, you guys are great...I'm getting heaps of advice, and I'm not completely confused! The whole hardwood vs softwood thing is starting to play with my head I'll admit...

Thanks Ian for your comments, you make good points about extra space = more clutter. I've found this happens on the existing extension bench for the drop saw. The family want something fixed, and I've successfully taught them to put things on the workbench, but they seem to neglect to tell me when they do so. One thing leads to another, and before you know it you no longer have a bench, just a pile of stuff!

(Maybe a good place to start would be to spend less time on mobile Internet and more time at salvage yard! Still it's a quite day at work, so it's good to take the time to sit down for a while)

There has been a lot of discussion on width and length but not height.

I remember an idea in Shop Notes magazine where they had a central workbench about 12 metres wide by 3 metres deep. Set into the bench was all of the workshop tools needed to do a project (bandsaw, tablesaw etc.). The power tools were arranged in the order you would use them if you start the project with a rough sawn piece of wood, this idea is you progress clockwise around the bench and you finish up with a finely crafted product.
Now I would be the first to admit that this is a great idea but it is only likely to happen if you win 15 million in lotto, you set off on your around the world holiday and have someone make it while you are away. but...

The idea in itself is sound, all your work surfaces are at the same height and you simply slide your work from surface to surface (think about what shape your back will be in in 40-years).

So what I am suggesting is you measure the height of all the work surfaces that you have now and expect to keep and choose a height to become your standard, then slowly convert everything to that height by either extending their stands or cutting a little off the legs.
This means that as you rearrange your workshop over the next 50-years things will fit together. For example, you can use your workbench as an out-feed table for the tablesaw the day you have to mill 100 lengths...

Regards

Originally Posted by johnredl

The whole hardwood vs softwood thing is starting to play with my head I'll admit...

If you've got access to well priced jarrah, use it. You'd be nuts not to.

My bench is made from radiata laminated veneer lumber (LVL), and works perfectly well, so it's not like there is anything wrong with softwood. It's just that hardwood will probably be more durable.

Originally Posted by Polie

.....they had a central workbench about 12 metres wide by 3 metres deep. ....

Polie - are you conflating feet & metres? That's several square metres larger than my entire shed!

Originally Posted by Polie

...The idea in itself is sound, all your work surfaces are at the same height and you simply slide your work from surface to surface (think about what shape your back will be in in 40-years).

Initially I thought it sounded like a good idea, but after some more thought, I just can't see how it could work in my situation. I have benches and machine tables at different heights because it suits the operations performed there. I could standardize a couple, but not all. For example, my bandsaw table is at least 150mm higher than the tablesaw - it's as low as it could be, but I would not want the tablesaw top any higher. I can see the idea of being able to move work in a continuous manner has merit, especially ifyou make things mainly by machine & use the same order for each item. But I can't imagine how to do it for the sort of work I do, which is mainly handwork, & when I do use machines, it is rarely in the same order. The best move I ever made was to put as many machines as possible on wheels, so they can be stacked against a wall , & quickly deployed when needed, freeing up as much floor space as possible.

I guess what this emphasises is that each person has to bear in mind what they do & how they do it when planning work spaces....

Cheers,

Originally Posted by Polie

So what I am suggesting is you measure the height of all the work surfaces that you have now and expect to keep and choose a height to become your standard,

Regards

The book that I've been reading suggests height being measured to where your wrists are when they are by your side. My current outfeed bench 'feels' about 4" too high for hand tools, which when I stand on a 4" piece of wood seems more comfortable. I kinda figured that "feel" would be the best judge of height?

He must be talking about feet instead of metres, that bench would take a small army to complete (and move)!

Originally Posted by NZStu

If you've got access to well priced jarrah, use it. You'd be nuts not to.

Righto, problem solved!

Originally Posted by IanW

Polie - are you conflating feet & metres? That's several square metres larger than my entire shed!

My dimensions may be a little large but the workbench was pretty large. From memory they had a wooden frame that they set the tools into to get them all the same height then covered the whole surface in birch ply.

Originally Posted by IanW

Initially I thought it sounded like a good idea, but after some more thought, I just can't see how it could work in my situation. I have benches and machine tables at different heights because it suits the operations performed there. I could standardize a couple, but not all. For example, my bandsaw table is at least 150mm higher than the tablesaw - it's as low as it could be, but I would not want the tablesaw top any higher. I can see the idea of being able to move work in a continuous manner has merit, especially if you make things mainly by machine & use the same order for each item.

I agree, not all tools should be the same height, a stand for a lathe needs to be fairly low so that the workpiece is at a good working height and not up around your ears but you would have to agree that at least half of the common machines worktops could be at the same height.

Originally Posted by IanW

But I can't imagine how to do it for the sort of work I do, which is mainly handwork, & when I do use machines, it is rarely in the same order.

I acknowledge that this idea would work far better if all you make is the same item over and over, and forumites who make beds for a store would benefit from this type of layout.
But even as a fellow hand tool enthusiast you would acknowledge that although all projects are different they do tend to follow similar steps (dressing the wood is always one of the first steps)
I also assume you still have your workshop set up with the work flow in mind, you wouldn't want your handsaws located at the other end of the workshop from your saw bench.

Originally Posted by IanW

I guess what this emphasises is that each person has to bear in mind what they do & how they do it when planning work spaces....

Agree... and also plan for your work space to change as your skills/hobby/body changes

Originally Posted by johnredl

The book that I've been reading suggests height being measured to where your wrists are when they are by your side. My current outfeed bench 'feels' about 4" too high for hand tools, which when I stand on a 4" piece of wood seems more comfortable. I kinda figured that "feel" would be the best judge of height?

There are plenty of rules of thumb on how to get the best working height for you and your back will enjoy a day in the shed much more when you get it right.

Originally Posted by johnredl

He must be talking about feet instead of metres, that bench would take a small army to complete (and move)!

Calculate the size yourself, it had the space of two workbenches (one on each side - one was for finishing), it had a tablesaw, bandsaw, radial arm saw, thicknesser and just about every other machine a well setup workshop would have, items were well placed so the wood coming off the tablesaw did not crash into the bandsaw and that all takes space. Then underneath there were draws for the hand tools and stuff.
It was a really nice setup but as I say it is more suited to someone looking to spend their $15 million winnings.

Originally Posted by Polie

Calculate the size yourself, it had the space of two workbenches (one on each side - one was for finishing), it had a tablesaw, bandsaw, radial arm saw, thicknesser and just about every other machine a well setup workshop would have, items were well placed so the wood coming off the tablesaw did not crash into the bandsaw and that all takes space. Then underneath there were draws for the hand tools and stuff.
It was a really nice setup but as I say it is more suited to someone looking to spend their $15 million winnings.

Sorry Polie, I didn't mean that to sound rude, came out wrong. That's one serious table. I guess when you think of it like that it would be all to easy to eat up room. Do you have any pics of it?

Originally Posted by johnredl

Originally Posted by ian

Biscuits will help with aligning the boards, but IMO there are other, easier ways of doing this.

Your talking about clamping I assume?

I'm thinking that using cramping cauls at the ends to align the boards is a lot less hassel that cutting slots for multiple rows of biscuits

to use a caul on top, a caul on the bottom pulled together with F or G cramps aligns the boards at the end and then you can use a mallet to tap the boards into alignment down the glue up -- you do this after the sash clamps are cinched up but before you apply the final clamping pressure

I am going to build a bench this winter and I have given it some thought. I have also read a couple of books on the subject. Some workbenches are a piece of art but I am really more interested in something to work at, not to look at or impress. My current plan is to laminate three pieces of 3/4 inch plywood together for the top. I think that should give me enough mass to keep things from bouncing around too much if I am cutting a mortice. Am I right?

Seems to me a solid wood top would be more prone to movement than plywood.

Originally Posted by Bob Winter

... My current plan is to laminate three pieces of 3/4 inch plywood together for the top. I think that should give me enough mass to keep things from bouncing around too much if I am cutting a mortice.

That'd do it alright! But more important is a good strong base. Not so much heavy as sturdy. No racking or other movement no matter what task your doing.