Thread: The berg family.. (a berg show and tell)

Greetings Stewart,
The decals are remarkable. A great job.
I can see people being very interested in how they go.
I certainly am. I would also be very interested in buying some if you were inclined.
And I reckon I wouldn't be the only one.
How is sunny Stockton these days. I moved to sunny melbourne 23yrs ago from newie. A good move but I do miss the beach, and that stretch from stockton to the bay is pretty special.

Cheers

Frank

Frank

please let me successfully stick them to a chisel, then I will think about sharing them! I must admit I had not thought too much about others wanting them....I'm not saying i won't share ... I just want to learn how to do it before I do.

Cheers

Stewart

PS Stockton is my paradise

Sounds great Stewart.
I'm excited to see how they go.
Only thing is, If they look to pretty, you mightn't want to use them.
Cheers

Frank

Hello Steward,

my compliments for the decals! Wow, great job, i'm very interested in your progress, (and also in the decals))

good luck and greetings from Holland
Jan

I can appreciate the work you have put into this and can understand why you have done it however I make the following comments. If a Berg decal is anything like an early Titan decal (and Titan light tangs and sockets were copies of Bergs) then it is stuck on the handle as a transfer after the second coat and before the third coat of lacquer. It is not a paper sticker stuck on after the last coat like the later Titan decals which are subject to falling off as the glue ages. Transfers do not fall off. They just get worn or scraped off over time as the top coat deteriorates through environmental degradation and mechanical damage exposing them.

I'm sure the dealers currently getting up to and over $100 a throw on ebay for "original" Bergs will love them. Titan reproductions of both handles and decals are already out there. As I've said before, there is no intention to defraud on your part but what will the next owner of the chisels or decals so reproduced do with them. These vintage tools are now high value items and their cost is gradually increasing as they leave "vintage" and approach "antiquehood" (is there such a word?) so the temptation to assist patina and provenance will only increase. Unless you collect reproductions, collectors have to beware!

Originally Posted by Doggie

I can appreciate the work you have put into this and can understand why you have done it however I make the following comments. If a Berg decal is anything like an early Titan decal (and Titan light tangs and sockets were copies of Bergs) then it is stuck on the handle as a transfer after the second coat and before the third coat of lacquer. It is not a paper sticker stuck on after the last coat like the later Titan decals which are subject to falling off as the glue ages. Transfers do not fall off. They just get worn or scraped off over time as the top coat deteriorates through environmental degradation and mechanical damage exposing them.

I'm sure the dealers currently getting up to and over $100 a throw on ebay for "original" Bergs will love them. Titan reproductions of both handles and decals are already out there. As I've said before, there is no intention to defraud on your part but what will the next owner of the chisels or decals so reproduced do with them. These vintage tools are now high value items and their cost is gradually increasing as they leave "vintage" and approach "antiquehood" (is there such a word?) so the temptation to assist patina and provenance will only increase. Unless you collect reproductions, collectors have to beware!

Doggie

These are actual transfers and not stickers. Note I was just doing this for my own amusement and not as money making venture.

I mainly was trying to make my little collection look used and cared for. A bit like touching up the japanning on a hand plane.

I have not released these yet and if its going to upset the old tool community i will abstain from doing so.

Cheers stewart


drum maker

'Tis a bit of a grey area you've wandered into, Stewart. I can fully understand your desire to make the decals as a personal challenge & provided they are used for your own tools, and not to be passed of as 'originals', no harm can be done. But there are wider implications, as Doggie points out. I don't think for a moment that you ever intended to try & fool anyone (you obviously wouldn't have posted here if you had!), however, you don't know what some other person may do with them, either unintentionally or deliberately, in the future. That said, most collectors of 'genuine' antiques have to be pretty canny and on-gaurd against fakes, no matter what their area of specialty, so it's unlikely your decals will fool the 'experts'. And even though Bergs seem to be hitting absurd prices in some markets, the extra you might get for a 'mint' example is probably not quite at the point where anyone would go to the trouble it would require to make something that could fool a careful examination. But we may be on the way there....

I am rather bemused (& saddened) by the idea of collecting highly usable tools and storing them away, never to be used for their intended purpose ever again, and even more bemused by how the difference in desirability between "mint" and "used" varies with the object in question (sometimes "used" is more valuable than mint!?). But that's just me, I'm a tool-user, not a collector, obviously. But I'm not pointing the finger at anyone, if you define "collecting" as keeping large numbers of things I'm unlikely to use, then my pile of precious wood scraps is more of a collection than a strict resource!

Cheers,

I use my bergs every weekend and have worn some of the decals...hence my challenge....... i admit i have collected a number of bergs, however i can confirm that i have definely not just been storing them the ability to have replacement decals gives you the freedom to use the tools and after a period of time refresh them so they look cared for.

As mentioned earlier i will have to have a good long hard think about releasing this decal because i don't want to stir up the hornets nest!

drum maker

Originally Posted by bunya pine

I use my bergs every weekend and have worn some of the decals...hence my challenge....... i admit i have collected a number of bergs, however i can confirm that i have definely not just been storing them the ability to have replacement decals gives you the freedom to use the tools and after a period of time refresh them so they look cared for.

As mentioned earlier i will have to have a good long hard think about releasing this decal because i don't want to stir up the hornets nest!

drum maker

With these tolls become desirable collector's items and the money involved, I share the concerns of doggie and IanW, but I would also like to try to restore my own tools. I thinks it is fine to both use and collect berg tools and as a woodworker in the Dutch yachting industry I do both. But here are some more members of my berg family I dare not take to work.
SAM_1530.jpg

jadh77 Those chisels are now all incredibly valuable/expensive vintage items and to be treasured. Find some downgrades for everyday users. They are still Bergs. For those beautiful tools to have come this far (maybe 50/60 years or more) and remain in pristine condition is a miracle in itself. Stradavarius violins do not get used for practice or in the string section I am told. There are thousands of dollars worth of chisels there, especially the spoons. They should very reluctantly be used. They belong to posterity. You jadh77 are now merely a steward for their ongoing preservation. Make it so.
The Titan God has spoken. Heed and obey!

Originally Posted by bunya pine

P2100002.jpg

Team

I must have too much time on my hands..... well here I go again.... I see heaps of people restoring beautiful berg chisels etc... however they never reproduce the decal. I'm a berg tragic (knifes, plane blade, chisels (carving, bevelled, mortice and registered firmer)) and decided one day I would have a go at making a new decal for my restorations.

I'm lucky enough to have a near perfect example of a decal on a kitchen knife set. So i scanned it, fixed the few blemishes and have printed it onto proper decal paper..... I have not stuck any to my chisels yet but will have a go in the next couple of weeks. I thought I would show you my progress to date and get your opinion.


Cheers
Stewart

Hi Stewart,

I've made decals for other purposes but had never thought of reproducing tool decals. The old Stanley decals are also excellent candidates for reproduction.

Thanks for the idea.

Cheers,
Rob

Bunya, those decals are excellent. My Berg sockets are being re-handled atm but I would love to get some decals to add to the new handles. Let me know if you intend to make them available.

Here are some of my favorite berg family members. Two 51mm and a 38mm. Older pieces than the 1031 serie from around 1920-1930. The tang's are longer and even better steel. 3rd picture shows the difference.

I have have a few old Bergs that I would like to clean up. What is the best way to restore them? (The metal not the handle)

Originally Posted by IanW

Well, thanks to the generosity of P.m., a deal was struck, the gap in my inherited set of Bergs has been filled, and they are ready to be passed on to a deserving new guardian, in due course.

As received, my chisels were a bit the worse for wear, due to neglect, plus, I suspect, the un-tender attentions of others during the old pot's last few years. One handle was damaged beyond use, and several were missing, and a couple had been replaced with some pretty crude facsimiles. I started out by making replacement handles from some Olive wood, which makes excellent handles, but they were a bit of a mismatch for the originals! (pic 1).

I decided they really needed to look like a set, and since I happened to be making some handles (about which Pac man may have something to add in due course... ), now was the hour. As it turns out, I had a chunk of She-oak off the old family farm. It was probably the last wood dad milled up, somewhere towards the end of his 80's, and he had given it to me a year or so before he died, realising, I suspect, that he wasn't going to get around to using it, himself. So what better than to give the set new handles made from this wood?

So here they are in all their glory (pic 2). The ring-ins on each side of the set of Bergs are a very narrow chisel (somewhere between 1/16 & 3/32") I made from an old chainsaw file, and a 1 1/4" tanged Marples, at the other end. I'm using dad's nice 'Black diamond' 1 1/4" in its place, as well as the 1 1/2" Marples that was in the sorriest state of all,but has cleaned up aafter a mammoth session of lapping.

Thanks, P.m. - I'm a very happy little vegemite......