Thread: BJSPlanes

The bar has just risen again and even better its a local(well to me anyway)

Awesome looking tools,

Cheers Matt


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You lucky duck! I was drooling over this during Brians build and then at the MGFW event. Enjoy that plane! The hammer is absolutely stunning as well, and befitting of the plane.

I did try a few passes with one of Brian's demo planes and they really do have a great feel in hand and look to take beautiful shavings.

Thanks for sharing!

Cheers, Dom

Nice looking acid etch on the side of that plane. Do you have a clearer picture of it?

Originally Posted by D.W.

Nice looking acid etch on the side of that plane. Do you have a clearer picture of it?

Have a look at Brian's Instagram feed for lots of pictures of the build. BJSPLANES on instagram. I'll take a pic or two with the camera this weekend. This one is a a quick snap with the phone.

I wish the guy luck (found his page), but I'm not sure buyers are getting what they're paying for now that it's basically a metal sided krenov plane (small plane, short single iron, etc).

This is the type that a lot of folks are into when they start, though, I guess.

It's certainly much more plane than one of the krenov makers we have in the states, who will sometimes try to charge $1000+ USD for a prettied-up krenov plane.

Not trying to rain on parades, just see a big gap between this plane and something like a vintage norris 2 when a user gets proficient. Of course, anything made new in the pattern of those old planes is another large step up in price (simply because they were semi-industrially made planes and no such operation exists these days - a current-make norris 2 made in a similar setup would probably be about half of the boutique cost).

Yes, you can get plenty of planes for less that potentially could work just as well. I see these as great value for money myself. AU to US dollar is pretty good in the US direction.
I’m very happy with my little smoother from BJS.
I’ve got a few from some terrific makers from all parts.
Best value for money is when you are gifted one. Then the satisfaction of making a few yourself.
Here in Oz the wooden planes of HNT Gordon are superb value and stand out users.
At the end of the day they take shavings. I just happen to like the ones that look good while doing it.
I hope Brian at BJS does well with this venture.


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Originally Posted by D.W.

........ it's basically a metal sided krenov plane (small plane, short single iron, etc).

This is the type that a lot of folks are into when they start, though, I guess........

Hmm, I think this plane is a little further down the track than a straight Krenov, D.W.! I haven't seen too many Krenovs with metal sides dovetailed to a metal sole. I think it could be better described as an infill with a Krenovian profile (was that Jim's original idea, or was he following some older Swedish tradition?). It's a bit of an advance over a simple laminated wooden body, and a goodly step up from this, which bears a bit more comparison with a 'Krenov': Brass_ironwood laminated.jpg which as you can see has brass sides riveted onto a wooden core. Mouth & blade.jpg

The only extra skill set needed to make one of these vs the all-wood variety is learning to peen rivets without too many mis-hits. Cutting, fitting & peening a metal sole is a bit more demanding. If that's a laminated steel on the sides of Kevin's plane, it would've complicated peening quite a bit too, I suspect. I wasn't sure my hybrid construction was going to work, given that the core should move a little with the seasons, but it has remained solid since it was made, quite a few years ago now. I surmise that there is sufficient tension in the rivets to manage the teeny amount of change that occurs. The core wood is Cooktown Ironwood (Erythrophleum chlorostachys) which is very stable, so I guess that helps.

Anyway, your new plane is definitely a thing of beauty, Kev, & it's good to see that someone 'local' is having a go at infills. It's not an easy road, & you'd need to be pretty proficient to make a crust, even at 'premium' prices!

I had a great chat with Brian on the weekend and I have a much greater appreciation of the amount of work that goes into one of his planes. The fit and finish is flawless and they really are functional works of art. Everything is lapped dead flat, mouth is precise and tight etc. I suspect he is actually making a pitance for his labour.

On cap irons, Brian said he used to make them with double irons but found no benefit at all and went with single iron setups. He had some heavily figured wood and the planes were taking beautifully thin and complete shavings, leaving an amazing finish.

I can't bring myself to drop the coin to buy one right now but definitely don't think you will find a similar quality product for less.

Cheers, Dom

I think this idea behind no cap irons comes from the fascination with a 1 thousandth shaving for everything. The benefit of the cap iron is when you need to step back and do a bit more than that.

I'd imagine few enough people do any serious planing that it would be an impediment to a maker, though. Ron Brese has been selling planes for more than a decade now, and steadily increasing his prices, and his setup is a thick iron with no cap.

I'd venture to guess that most of the infill makers who are charging $1500 US equivalent for a small infill or $3K US equivalent for a dovetailed norris copy are making about $30 an hour.

If these planes were made in volume with all of the rough work done by machines to pattern, things could be sped up greatly.

I made a skew infill shooter a couple of months ago, and I'd guess that it took about 75 hours. the finish level is slightly less than the planes mentioned here, but the complexity far greater (I tapered the iron manually with a belt sander idler, it's skew, and the iron was made from O1 stock - the taper is hollow - curved in the back).

I don't think any of these makers are making planes that aren't lapped dead flat, though. It's part of the finishing process. As planes get larger, filing is necessary to make them *very* flat from end to end (the same types of tolerances we see in lie nielsen planes), with finish lapping to make the surfaces uniform looking.

I could be wrong about time, as I've never made the same plane twice. The tenth plane you'd make of the same pattern (and without the issues of determining layout) would be much faster than the first.

Originally Posted by kevjed

I hope Brian at BJS does well with this venture.


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Me, too. I'm sure his portfolio will expand as he continues. There's certainly the need to charge what it takes to run a business. IIRC, you've got a bunch of Konrad's planes. I think Konrad is the best maker of our time. my opinion. There are folks like Karl Holtey, who make very precise planes at a higher cost, but Konrad makes beautiful complicated planes for a very reasonable price and has been doing so for a long time without running away to something like a thick sole with rivets in the side and wood only for a knob and handle.

The pattern steel on the sides of Brian's planes is a really nice touch.

(I like the nice planes, too! I think if you're working with them, they encourage you to work to a higher standard unless you're sleeping).

Originally Posted by IanW

Hmm, I think this plane is a little further down the track than a straight Krenov, D.W.! I haven't seen too many Krenovs with metal sides dovetailed to a metal sole.

Yes, krenov pattern, not construction. The comment about not getting what you're paying for isn't strictly a comment about how much time it takes to make them, it's more a matter of getting a short plane in a plain pattern with a short iron that will have adjustability problems in half an inch of use. I know that there aren't many planes that actually get through that half inch these days.

I'm just a fan of the vintage patterns made fresh from boutique makers, as they are a more useful plane as a user becomes more adept. They're also harder and more costly to make, especially at the boutique level.

(I've made five infills so far - and am familiar with the time! If I didn't have a day job, I'd probably take on 20 of the same pattern and see how good I could get with them and how fast. I can make a wooden jack plane in a long day now, to reasonable 18th century standards, and if it takes me 80+ hours to make a full sized smoother with bun and handle, I'd be curious to see if I could bump the quality up and the time down a little bit. It'd be interesting to know how many man hours are in a norris 2 from the early 1900s - I'm sure it's fewer than 80, but would be curious as to just how low the number could be bumped with repetition).

In terms of charge, a maker has to charge what they're willing to do the work for, and certainly enough to get out of bed and do it the next day. We've seen the danger of undercharging - gabardi and sons was a good example here. They made reasonably nice planes (though the dovetails were a bit sloppy), and thought they could make a coffin shaped full sized infill smoother for $1,250 or so. They ran out of money (or just abandoned due to the prospect of that) with a lot of deposits in arrears.

re: the infill, we don't have a lot of reasonable options in the US (dark woods with good hardness and low shrinkage)

Yes on the laminated steel - it increases the demand of clean work before the peining so that everything lines up. you can't hide a smudgy line of pattern vs. non-pattern welded, just as you can't pein brass to steel and hide sloppy corner or edge work on the dovetails (one of the luxuries of making the dovetails disappear on a plane where the sole and sides are the same metal).

Originally Posted by D.W.

I'm just a fan of the vintage patterns made fresh from boutique makers, as they are a more useful plane as a user becomes more adept. They're also harder and more costly to make, especially at the boutique level.
.

Me too.
Yes, I agree with you about Konrad being the maker of his generation. I’m a huge fan of his work. The design work and the execution are sublime.
The K series is his modern take on the traditional infill planes. Just wonderful tools.
The other thing that sets Konrad’s work apart is his insane collection of wood that he has to use in the planes.
Brian’s little range of smoothers have evolved in the time I’ve been watching and I plan to watch carefully as his range develops. I’m willing to bet BJS planes will gain a Stella reputation over time.
I’ve no doubt that once people use the BJS tools they will be very happy indeed. I see the heavy dense Australian timbers as being a bit of a draw card. Time will tell.
Cheers
Kev




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