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Thread: A Block Plane dilemma
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8th April 2013, 09:21 AM #16
Heeeeyy, chill out brother! You know me - practical first, and looks come second, if feasible. It's the practical side of the visual that puts me off bigtime when re-setting, coz I can't remember how "off square" it has to be.
But standby - today's fiddling will shed some light I think. You can even hold your breath if you like.
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8th April 2013, 09:22 AM #17
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8th April 2013, 10:24 AM #18
Brett, thinking about setting the blade, I put it in back of the mouth (or for an adjuster less plane use a setting block) clamp the cap then advance slowly looking along the sole to see if the blade protrudes and is even across the sole. If not then adjust the lateral lever or tap the blade laterally with a brass mallet.
When you say your reference is out because of the skew, it would only be a gross reference anyway cause you'd still need to adjust slightly laterally wouldn't you looking along the sole?
The only exception to this I can think of is those fancy Veritas planes (and a few others) that have grub screws in the bed side wall so when you put the blade in I imagine there is little lateral adjustment necessary?
You're going to make me go and look at all my block planes to see if they deserve all this attention that we're giving yours. To now I just put the blade in, adjusted as per description above, and if the shaving comes off then repeat. Sure you're not over thinking this one???
nick
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8th April 2013, 11:46 AM #19
Ok, been taking some shavings. To get a shaving that is the same thickness on both sides (0.1mm in this case, on Douglas Fir), the blade has to be not quite parallel with the back of the mouth, and rather badly out of parallel with front, adjustable part of the mouth. When I look down through the mouthe parallelism is completely FUBAR, and the left blade to body gap is virtually zero but not quite (perhaps 0.1mm), the right is about 2mm.
The adjuster is not pivotable, so a hammer is required (or just put the blade in at the maximum twist and tap a touch to get the 0.1mm gap on the left.
When I sight along the bed from the back, I can see that the bed is not parallel to the front of the mouth - it is up on the right, as I think we would expect in this case. That would seem to prove that the bed is out of whack to the rest of the body.
(and you have no idea how tricky it is swapping reading glasses for closies every sentence)
Remember that the back of the mouth is not perpendicular to the side of the body, and this is consistent with the above, of course. However, and this has me stumped, when I sighted the edge of the back of the mouth I expected it to be thicker on one side, because the bed is tilted up to one side, which makes the mouth not perpendicular. This is all completely geometrically logical. BUT NO! The back edge of the mouth is the same thickness all the way across! HEEELLLP! That can only mean that there is something else going on as well. No bloody wonder this thing is so infernally hard to set!
That last para also means that if I file the mouth so that it is perpendicular, then the different thickness of the mouth edge will become a reality, but I suppose that shouldn't affect anything (and it would give me a parallel reference point for setting, and bugger the front edge of the mouth).
I should probably add that I have a pretty damn good eye for parallelism.
Does that help, or is just too hard to visualise?
I may indeed follow NCA's plan and give the Men's Shed a call, because I think can only see frustration ahead, followed one day by a half kilo missile at speed.
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8th April 2013, 12:14 PM #20
Although eminently satisfying, I cannot condone this treatment of any hand tool no matter how wonky. Similarly, using larger hand tools to weight down a body being dumped at sea is n..............forget I mentioned that.
The bed must not be parallel to the sole? I think.Those were the droids I was looking for.
https://autoblastgates.com.au
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8th April 2013, 12:16 PM #21
The local Men's Shed may not be sufficient to get rid of this rogue plane......I feel something more drastic is called for
Mount Doom - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
It's a bit of a walk, but the only way to ensure that this evil plane is destroyed once and for all.
I know you got it really really cheap direct from overseas, but I happily pay just a bit more to get my WoodRiver stuff through Jim Davey locally. Not only does it arrive with a VERY sharp blade, but Jim actually tunes up and tweaks the planes on the way through to ensure they work properly out of the box. The kind of problem you describe wouldn't have got through Jim Davey QA I'm sure.
FWIW the only overseas handtool company I'm happy to buy direct from is Lee Valley. I've experienced enough QA problems with Lie Nielsen gear to settle for paying a small premium and buying from the local LN guy rather than order direct from the US, especially as the local LN outfit have brought their prices a bit more into line with reality recently. That way any returns are relatively cheap and painless.
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8th April 2013, 12:23 PM #22
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8th April 2013, 12:33 PM #23
It was an experiment more than anything else. A mate who speaks the lingo offered me a place in his shipment, so I said "why not". Kinda like a trial run for something on a "somewhat larger scale" if you get my drift.
Re LN Aust: there's no point in buying from the USA when you factor in the freight. No point at all. Your getting dangerously close to setting me off again, but if LN, Makita, Bosch and a very few others can do it, then.......
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8th April 2013, 12:36 PM #24
Is this a group-buy pre-emptive mental stealth attack?
You have grown men dragging their block planes in to the computer ... or computer out to the shed ... magnifying glass in hand
My first thought was that a small increase across the mouth edge might be magnified up the length of the bed and started to try to work that out ...
but I think the answer is this ... you'd only get the wedge edge if the rear of the mouth was square, which it is not.
If it is a truly uniform thickness then I'm sure the angle (out of square) would be mathematically related to the tilt on the bed.
What about shim the blade to match the front edge of mouth then you can use a feeler gauge to measure the gap between blade and bed (from below)
Cheers,
Paul
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8th April 2013, 01:27 PM #25
Brett,
the mental picture of the geometry is the same as the bed of a skewed plane isn't it? Pick the Stanley 140. However the angle is just much much less in your plane?
nock
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8th April 2013, 01:32 PM #26
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8th April 2013, 01:35 PM #27
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8th April 2013, 02:22 PM #28
Knick, I think I getcha now. If I look down at the top of a skew plane then the bed will have been rotated in parallel with the sole by 30 or 45 Deg (or whatever theyare ). This one could have rotated like that or possibly even upwards as well (but i suspect the former, because I can actually get the blade straight, and being out in two dimensions would probably prohibit that).
Jeez it looks weirdo when you look down at it......hang on....I'll take a pic of it when it takes good, even, proper shavings....it's a killer on the eyes....back in a tick.....
Believe it or not, this:
produced this (0.10mm each side +-0.005mm):
Huh! How quick was that eh? I read a really good thread on photography...
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8th April 2013, 02:58 PM #29
Britt,
I'm ignoring yore spelleing snipe.
The only thing to do now is to file the right side (from above) of the throat plate so you can narrow the opening as designed. Measure the angle of the blade in your most recent post and scribe it to the throat plate. File away and you're done.
Nick
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8th April 2013, 03:35 PM #30
Yeah, that all makes sense. Except that I'm an Aussie.
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