Thread: Bunnings handsaw to rip red gum?

Ripping red gum stumps into thin planks is a big ask for most power saws let alone a handsaw, can't say it can't be done if your feeling fit or want to build muscle and you may be after the rough look maybe? keeping things parallel will be difficult too. If you must then you may need more than one saw, go for a Rip saw at about $25. The other option might be to spend the voucher on some decking timber, they usually have a few different types so have a wander down that neck of the woods.

Redgum is tough, while I admire the sentiment of doing as much as possible with hand tools, ripping a table top from redgum house stumps is a big ask.

I had a look at the Bunnings range of handsaws, and can't see anything that would qualify as a proper rip saw, you want fairly coarse teeth, maybe less than 8 tpi? depends a bit on thickness of the timber. Nice and sharp and set yourself up with a good workhorse.

Carbatec doesn't seem to have much in the way of decent rip saws either, so you might be better off looking for something like a Disston thumbhole rip.

Ray

PS... Something like this Vintage Hand Tools Disston D8 SAW 4TPI RIP Sharp Handsaw OLD Antique Tools 99 | eBay

Originally Posted by no_signal

Any advice on particular models or brands to go for (or avoid)? Do I need to worry about rip saws vs. crosscut saws? If there's just no hope with anything from the big green shed I'll find something else to spend the voucher on and pony up for a decent handsaw from some other tool shop.

Cheers!

It will be good to try it out, the best way to learn really . One cheap saw meant for general crosscutting, and try and rip down something that the old boys in the old days thought was only good enough for stumps or fence posts. You may have other uses for the saw later and you will know for sure once you try a rip saw at what its meant for, just how well they do their job .

You could look around for a nice quality rip , Some of the ones I have come across have not many teeth per inch , they were used on softwoods and I wouldn't think would be as good on something like Red Gum end grain.

One thing you could try is to find a $10 to $15 old quality crosscut and file it up for ripping , You don't have to get to fancy about it and get it all perfect to feel how good it will work , just scrape off the rust and shine it up , you do need to have the set right so the teeth make a path for the saw body to follow. You don't have to have a saw set to do this but could just do it by eye with a fine brad hammer , or a hammer and punch on a bit of end grain stump . You cant do this with a modern hard tooth saw I don't think? because the teeth have been made extra hard and are not meant for re sharpening but throwing away. If you ground off the hardened teeth you probably could cut new teeth and file and set them for ripping in the softer spring steel beyond the extra hard teeth maybe .

I did this with some old tennon saws , filed them for a rip cut only , they are as rough as guts to look at ,teeth up and down all over the place. but when Im cutting large dovetails in big boxes they work fast and clean, or just ripping out end grain bits of anything for patching repair work as well . The cut is so aggressive the only problem is getting the saw started.

Rob

Originally Posted by RayG

Redgum is tough, while I admire the sentiment of doing as much as possible with hand tools, ripping a table top from redgum house stumps is a big ask.
Carbatec doesn't seem to have much in the way of decent rip saws either, so you might be better off looking for something like a Disston thumbhole rip.
Ray
PS... Something like this Vintage Hand Tools Disston D8 SAW 4TPI RIP Sharp Handsaw OLD Antique Tools 99 | eBay

What size are your timbers?
Your best weapon would be a 5ppi or 4ppi or less SHARP ripsaw ... and in the process it is going to dull, so there's learning to touch it up or finding someone else to help.

Bunnings does have a $60+ sharpenable S&J ... but it won't be a coarse rip saw.
Given no deadline, you can easily get an mildly ugly 1940s-60s Disston and make it into a bit of a weapon to learn with.

Given your 2-week window ... just one suggestion ... get a $20-$30 hardpoint saw (S&J, Irwin, (Stanley maybe)) ... and use it to do your crosscutting.
and for the ripping ... use a circular saw to cut say a 1-inch deep groove all the way around the stump ... and use the hard-point to take out what's left.
It won't be pretty ... and workholding is half your battle IMO ... but it will start to give you an idea of what a nice saw is like.
It will be sharp and 'effective' ... but the hardpoint teeth are small and not proper rip teeth ... so it can only get better with a "real" saw.

Bushmiller might have something on the go he could send for less than that ebay seller. ???

Cheers,
Paul

Hi no signal

I don't think you will be able to buy a suitable rip saw at Bunnings, or any other new tool retailer in Australia.

From what I can tell, using Dr Google, the sort of saw you want to rip red gum stumps will be about 700 or even 900mm long, have 3 or 4 TPI and be filled rip. I can't find anything about the thickness of the saw plate, but based on what I recall of the cross cut saw my grandfather owned, the saw plate will need to be about 1.5mm thick, or perhaps thicker.
I think all the hand saws sold by Bunnings and Masters are filled for cross cutting and will just bog if used to rip red gum.

You might be able to get a 4-1/2 TPI rip saw from Carbatech (Catalog price $247) but I think the blade will be too thin (and hence the teeth a little too fragile) for what you want to cut.

hey, but if you're keen give it a go.

Originally Posted by no_signal

I'm aware that red gum is a pig to work with and I might be signing myself up for 2 weeks of anguish,

All things are possible, however this could be truer than you think.

Let us know how you go.

Originally Posted by pmcgee

What size are your timbers?
Your best weapon would be a 5ppi or 4ppi or less SHARP ripsaw ... and in the process it is going to dull, so there's learning to touch it up or finding someone else to help.

Paul

This.

Seriously manly old rip saws come up for sale fairly regularly. I have one at less than 4 TPI in my pending restoration pile. The thing's a goddamn chainsaw if you add sufficient muscle - and I'm assured by people who have tried that nicely set and sharpened (frequently) it will cruise through redgum down the grain.

Trick is, how much you want to spend. High quality vintage ripsaw - $80 and up. Saw clamp or modified vice - at least $50. Decent quality sawset at that size another $40ish. File big enough to sharpen teeth of that size - another $20.

Then you need to learn how. Which is not as easy as it looks on YouTube.

Where are you in Melbourne. I am in the Dandenongs and can let you come and try some of my rip saws. and if that doesn't work for you I have a bandsaw that will rip redgum. Pm me if you want to try before you spend your money.

Hey you blokes, sometimes you get too fussy! I'm with Auscab - give it a go & see - you have little to lose & much to learn.

Those plastic-handled hard-point saws are not pretty to look at and not particularly brilliant at any job, but they are ok as all-rounders. I carry one in my ute, and I'm often grateful for it. I'll confess I haven't yet cut a table-top's worth of planks out of Redgum with it, though! The saw I have is sharpened more in a rip profile than crosscut, as most I've looked at are (except the one's with "Japanese" style teeth). It's nowhere near as nice to use, & doesn't work as well as my freshly-sharpened progressive-pitch Disston, for sure, but it keeps cutting at a reasonable level long after the Disston would hve needed serious attention from a file, & particularly if it encounters a bit of metal!

Having watched a lot of blokes sawing, the saw is only half the equation, an equal problem many have is poor technique, viz., short, choppy strokes & putting too much pressure on the teeth. If you want to try a hard-point, get the longest saw you can, with the biggest teeth (though about 8tpi seems to be universal on anything around 550-600mm long), get yourself set up with a couple of decent supports for the work and go at it. Develop a nice, steady rhythm, using as much of the blade as you can, and let the saw do the work, i.e. don't force it. By the time you've ripped a few planks, you'll be a much better sawyer, if nothing else.

Redgum is tough stuff, but a lot of it is actually not that bad (for a Eucalypt!), some I've had I'd class as not bad at all to work. However, after a few long cuts you'll probably be quite keen to take up Pagie's offer of the bandsaw. Ripping off the raw material is only the beginning of the job, after all, there'll still be plenty of sawing & other handwork to be done before you can call it a table....

Cheers,

Did a quick search and Bunnings have a Stanley 'Heavy Duty' 7tpi saw for about $10. Definitely get that. It's, perhaps, entirely unsuitable for the job at hand and is (probably, due to hardened teeths) unsharpenable, but it'll be a handy addition to your toolbox. I've got one, and it's the saw I use when I'm doing something that might hurt a good saw...

I've learned at least 3 things so far.

1) If you're going to ask for advice, wait to hear the answer before you go off on your own.
2) Hand sawing is hard — technique-wise more than physically.
3) Redgum blunts tools as though it were solid rock.

About 15min after posting this thread I shot down to the green shed and bought a "universal" saw, about $25. It's about 15TPI… hence lesson A — should've got a coarser one.

I got back and happily sawed off one rotten end (cross-cut) of one stump. Not such hard work, but good lord hard to get anything looking like a clean line. I started trying to saw off one plank and it got very ugly very quickly nothing even vaguely resembling a straight line, saw sticking everywhere, with a cut about twice as wide as the sawblade as I wriggled it around trying to un-jam it. Hence lesson B. Ended up with a nowhere-near-even wedge-shaped slice…

As for lesson C, I took the "rotten" (not so rotten it turns out) end which I'd cut off and thought I'd try to plane at least one side of it down to see what it looked like underneath. About 10 minutes in and my poor garage sale stanley no. 4 was spitting chips, had to drop the blade out a few mm to catch anything, and that was just digging holes in it.

Only a day in and I'm already demoralised but that's the point of learning, gotta get back on the horse! Resharpened the plane this morning, will watch a few more youtube videos on ripping planks and try again with the saw I have. If that's no-go, I'll try the $10 'heavy duty' (thanks Seanz) and see if that makes a difference; if I'm still out of luck I might very well take you up on your offer Pagie, very kind, although by that stage I might only have one stump left to butcher!

Maybe we'll end up with a nice set of coasters rather than a tabletop, but that's better than nothing… Thanks for your advice gents.

Oh, I forgot lesson 4), I really need a front vise for my bench — clamps on sawhorses are doing my head in!!

Hang in there, and the technique will come with practice. Meantime I'd be off to take up Pagie's very generous offer of the use of his bandsaw, maybe pick up a few plane fettling tips in the process.

Ray

Originally Posted by no_signal

Oh, I forgot lesson 4), I really need a front vise for my bench — clamps on sawhorses are doing my head in!!

You could tie it to a tree with rope, or clamp it to a pergola upright