Thread: First Buy - Chisels, Bench & Mortise

seem a little on the expensive side, but could be just because

.....people buy a lot less mortise chisels than beveled edge chisels? Specialty equipment, lower volume sales tend to equal a higher price.....economics is strange, eh?


It might be worth asking Carba-tec if they plan to stock the Hamlet mortise chisels again......I'm sure they used to.

Edit.
Or maybe not as I can't find a mention of that product on the Hamlet site....they do have mortise chisels though.
http://www.hamletcrafttools.co.uk/woodcarvindex.html

Have you considered Firmer Chisels.

Carbatec WA are still stocking Hamlet mortising chisels.

Hamlet Mortising Chisels : CARBA-TEC

I built up a collection of mortising chisels by buying off EBay. It was a long tedious process over 18 months - I kept getting out bid at the last moment! In hindsight, there is no need to buy a full set - just buy the ones that you will most likely use e.g. a 1/4" and a 1/2".

HTH

Mike

Go Titan!

You can get good old Australian Titan Chisels on ebay for a reasonable price. most I've seen are the slab sided firmer type rather than bevel types. They did make bevel edge chisels too but they don't seem to be nearly as common. Good chisels.

Old EA Berg bevel edged chisels on ebay can be another good investment.

I like old tools. I just can't justify buying new tools when there are so many good old ones out there.

Cheerio,
Virg.

What chisels you will use will depend upon how much work you are going to do and of what type. Personally, I wouldn't bother getting a "full set" of chisels, just buy the sizes you need at first.

I use chisels a lot; they are probably my most "reached for" tools. I have a few different chisels that I use in different situations and am currently expanding my collection. I use some old "no-name" socket chisels for carpentry work. Some plastic handled Stanley’s I use for rougher work and some Titans I use for finer work along with a pair of register chisels for mortises.

I wouldn't bother with the Irwin Marples set myself but if you are newish to woodwork it might be just the thing for you. Once you gain more experience and know you are going to be doing a reasonable amount of work you might find something like the Pfiel bevel edge chisels sold by Carbatec or the Kirschen chisel range which is marketed as "Two Cherries" or "Hirsch" will be better suited to your needs. These are more in the "mid-priced" range and will give you years of service holding their edge well. If you opt to try one of the Kirchen brands make sure you buy the "unpolished" chisels as these are more straightforward to sharpen.

I'd love to own sets of the Harold and Saxon chisels but my budget doesn't reach that far. The Lie Nielsen chisels are modelled after the old-style socketed Stanley’s and are rated very highly by several on this forum. They are probably the top of the range "production" chisel easily available here in Australia.

Specifically discussing mortise chisels there are a few brands readily available here in Australia probably the easiest to source are the Hamlets which are stocked by Carbatec. I've never used one of theirs so I cannot comment on their quality. I have used both the Lie Nielsen and Two Cherries both of which are great mortise chisels. Two cherries make at least two different types and I think I'll be buying more of these. They have a register mortise chisel with a yellow handle that I really like the feel of.

Cheers

Horaldic

I have been using marples blue chip for around 40 years and they'll go on for a lot longer than that. However, they were made in Sheffield when Marples meant quality. I understand that now some of the marples brand is made in China!
Cheers,
Jim

Yeah Jim, the old and new Marples are totally different products the superficial appearance and branding are similar but that's about as far as it goes.

Mate, I bash my plastic handled bevel edge chisels with a ball pein hammer, and I still can't bust them so I feel justified getting something better.

Mortice chisels:
Yes, it is easier, quicker and more accurate if you have English Mortice 'pig stickers', normal mortice or firmers. But you don't need them if you are starting out, they just make it easier to be quicker and more accurate... Beved edge chisels will just mean you take a little longer to be accurate.

Thanks All for your input on chisels, sounds like older chisels would be better than new ones. It also sounds like it may not be worth getting mortise chisels initially as well. Anyway will continue looking around at the different chisels and buy a few when I can.

I wouldn't say older is better than newer. Older in some brands is better than newer in some of those same brands; key examples of this are Marples and Stanley. However, newer in some brands is at least the equivalent of those older brands.

Modern metallurgy is way ahead of that from 40 years ago; it's just a matter of doing your research so you end up at the right end of the price/value equation. I'd suggest buying one or two chisels from the brands and ranges you like, using those for a bit and then buying one of the smaller box sets which is significantly discounted over the single chisel price. Examples of this are the sets of six Two Cherries unpolished chisels from Ideal Tools and the set of chisels manufactured by Pfiel and sold by Carbatec.

One personal favourite of mine, AE Berg, is now hugely overpriced by some of the specialty second-hand vendors. An equivalent in quality, if the Bergs are in "mint" condition, would be the "Two Cherries". These are readily available new at lower prices than Bergs purchased through such specialty vendors.

Specialty mortise chisels are a bit of a luxury item. I've had to hand cut a few mortises in proper Tas Oak, not the junk sold generically but dense grained E. Regnans. It's not something I'd do again by choice. You are much better off drilling or routing out 90% of the waste and then cleaning up with your regular bench chisels. Mortise chisels are effective in the softer range of timbers but in hard woods it is a bit masochistic. If you have an allergy to electron burning a brace and bit is more effective.

This sort of leads into my next question, the reson for the initial chisel purchase would be for making a wooden mallet. The mallet head is about 100mm thick, which I need to get a straight mortise through for the handle (it will be tapered a bit)

But I was wondering how to drill the hole straight with only a hand drill?

Cheers

What is the difference between firmer chisels and bench chisels.

I was looking at the idealtools.com.au website and the two cherries chisels on there, but was just curious to know if firmer is just the brand that two cherries, or Kirchsher or whatever it's called

Or is Firmer a type of chisel like:
Bench Chisel
Mortice Chisel
Skew Chisel
etc?

Originally Posted by simonmags

What is the difference between firmer chisels and bench chisels.
Or is Firmer a type of chisel like:
Bench Chisel
Mortice Chisel
Skew Chisel

etc?

AFAIK firmer chisels are, as the name implies, a bit firmer than your paring chisels. There are no strict definitions, and various companies call similar chisels different names (and - most frustratingly - different chisels by similar names).

• Usually lighter bevel-edged chisels are for paring (paring chisels also come in longer as well as regular lengths).
• Heavier bevel-edged chisels are likely to be just regular bench chisels (but some companies call these firmer).
• Then your non-bevelled chisels are what I would call firmers.
• Then you get mortice chisels, which in most cases are just heavy non-bevelled chisels - but the real mortice chisels are the old fashion pig-stickers.

Then there are butt chisels and skew chisels and fishtail chisels and...and....

Confused? Don't worry, we all are !!

Cheers, Vann.

hi simonmags, there's been a discussion going on via the oldtools list regarding the history of the term 'firmer' and as Vann said, the meaning of the term is far from clear.
OldTools Archive -- thread with message 204547

different manufacturers use this term in various ways, for example Titan called everything a firmer chisel, some call the thicker straight sided chisels firmers and some don't.

re your mallet, you might try making your first one by laminating layers so you don't have to make the mortice. something like the following link, with the head sized to your requirements, and pinned across between the layers to help keep them aligned while glueing, using perhaps contrasting coloured dowels.
Make A Wooden Mallet