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Thread: If challenged to a duel...
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14th September 2018, 07:34 PM #1
If challenged to a duel...
You may need this: DT bx1.jpg
We're talking a dovetailing duel, so no firearms involved: DT bx2.jpg
Instead, a saw, square, D/T square, pin & cutting marking gauges, and marking knife: DT bx3.jpg
I had run out of 15 thou saw plate a while back, & someone needed a replacement blade made so I asked RayG if he happened to have a spare piece. He did - several spare pieces as it turned out, which put my retirement from sawmaking back a bit! After making said new blade, I was left with several bits of plate that I didn't want to have sitting about growing rust. So I made a scaled-down copy of the littlest Kenyon saw in the Seaton chest, but there were still a few smallish pieces, the largest of which was about 200mm long, & a bit short for my 'regular' dovetail saws. So I made that bit into a 'boxmaker's' saw, just a small saw with 24tpi that is happy cutting anything from 6-19mm thick. Then a bit of whimsy took over. I remembered Derek Cohen reporting on a dovetailing duel at the Perth show a year or two back, so I decided to make up a 'dueling kit', so there it is, all in matching She-oak. It's really intended for someone who regularly cuts dovetails in thin stock, such as a box maker, but the saw is quite capable of handling anything up to 19mm thick.
There were still two even smaller pieces of saw plate (~160mm long) left, so to completely clear the deck, I made those up into what I call 'little nippers'. I first made one of these thinking it would be a bit of a toy & a 'conversation piece'but found the darn thing so handy, I keep it within reach all the time.
So one one got a She-oak handle: S_oak nipper.jpg
and the other got the last bit of Qld Walnut I brought back from Nth. Qld. a couple of years ago: Qld W_nut nipper.jpg
These are both toothed at 24tpi. That makes 5 or 6 saws I've put 24tpi on in the last month or so. I find it quite difficult compared with 15 or even 18tpi, I really have to concentrate hard not to either skip teeth or worse, file twice in the same tooth. It only takes two full strokes of a #6 cut needle file to cut a tooth of this size, so you have to be careful to be absolutely consistent or it will end up cows & calves for sure.
So that's it -I have used up all my saw plate apart from a few scraper-sized scraps, and I am now happily retired from saw making. I've learnt never to say 'never', but I can assure you all it will be a long time before I make any more saws, if ever!
Cheers,IW
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14th September 2018 07:34 PM # ADSGoogle Adsense Advertisement
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14th September 2018, 07:38 PM #2
Ian,
This is a end of an era I’m sad.
Cheers Matt
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14th September 2018, 09:31 PM #3
That is fantastic Ian!
Of course, I don't believe that that is the last saw Yeah right ... I know you too well, my friend.
Incidentally, what are the angles of the marking gauge?
A beautiful set. We would not expect less!
Regards from Perth
DerekVisit www.inthewoodshop.com for tutorials on constructing handtools, handtool reviews, and my trials and tribulations with furniture builds.
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15th September 2018, 12:00 AM #4
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15th September 2018, 09:03 AM #5
Thanks Derek, and your contribution was acknowledged...
Angles for the layout gauge are 1:6 & 1:9 - apologies, I meant to mention that.
I made a crude gauge with these angles on opposite sides, about 30 years ago, & although I have made several other dovetail layout gauges in different styles (seems like every second FWW had a different one in the early days!), that one was always the one I used. It suits me because I set out by eye, following a system advocated by Frank Klausz, and I usually use varying tail widths. By using the width of the brass as a reference, it's easy to keep the tails close enough to even that you won't spot any differences without a micrometer. My later versions are a lot fancier than the original, with brass wear strips inlaid each side and a flushed brass bolt & internal sleeve to lock the blade, but they are no more functional than my original ugly duckling, I have to admit.
There've been a few discussions on dovetail angles here & elsewhere. The standard line I often hear (& what we were told at school in the 50s) was "1:9 for softwoods, 1:7 for hardwoods". For many a year, I diligently followed this bit of dogma without question. Then one day I was setting out some very large tails & noticed how exaggerated they looked even at 1:9, so I reduced the angle & they looked much better. The opposite occurs in thin stock - you need to increase the angle to make the tails more 'visible'. So I pondered this for a while & my conclusion was that dovetail angles have little to do with the tensile strength of the material, & much to do with appearance. You would really need to experiment with every species you work with to find the 'perfect' angle for maximum strength, but the difference would be inconsequential over the range of angles we normally choose. The gauge above is intended for narrow to medium stock, hence the steeper 1:6 angle on one side to better suit thin pieces.
Cheers,Last edited by IanW; 15th September 2018 at 09:06 AM. Reason: duplicate
IW
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15th September 2018, 10:03 AM #6
Ian
I just enlarged the pix of the two smallest saws and I will place them here a bit larger:
Wilkie small saw sheoak.jpgWilkie small saw walnut.jpg
Did you use the new method of shaping the backs? I particularly noticed how close the saw screws were placed, by necessity of course: A larger cheek would have looked out of balance on such a small saw. Then I looked as the screws themselves and certainly, on this style of saw and this size of saw, the flush fitted heads, and presumably split nuts, seem more pleasing in aesthetic terms.
The complete use of all available saw plate is commended. Excellent.
Regards
PaulBushmiller;
"Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely!"
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15th September 2018, 10:37 AM #7SENIOR MEMBER
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Another fine example of your craftsmanship Ian. Thanks for taking the time to post. Although I only have mediocre skills, watching your builds encourages me to give it a try and I have several of them saved for future reference. I don't expect them to be as good as yours but you have shown me that us mortal folk can build functional tools if we plan careful and take our time.
I was disappointed when you told us "last plane build" a few months ago and now even more disappointed to read "last saw build" here. Lets hope that there are a few "Johnny Farnham" builds still to come.
TonyYou can't use up creativity. The more you use, the more you have. ~Oscar Wilde
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15th September 2018, 07:26 PM #8
Not quite, Paul. The She-oak handled one has a chamfered rather than rounded top. The Qld Walnut handled saw has my 'signature' spine treatment, a lamb's tongue transition from a chamfer to the more square top above the cheeks. Some day, if I live long enough, I'm going to have a go at metal engraving, but I think it might take a while before that happens.....
Yes, on such small cheeks, it's a bit of a juggle to fit the bolts & keep it all proportionate. The domed bolts have 7/16" heads, which is getting down to the practical limit for the nuts, unless I used a very fine bolt size, but it's easy enough to use 8mm heads (with 4mm shanks) on the split nut style
I wax & wane regarding domed vs. flush bolts & nuts. The domed nuts are a little more bother to make, & need a 3-step hole. Drilling for the flush style is a bit easier, only a two-step hole. But I take Henry's point (in the patent application for the domed nut system) that it's easier to pre-finish the handle & fit the domed bolts & nuts & not have to re-finish after you've flushed the brass. Overall, there's probably slightly more work involved if I use the split nuts/flushed to the cheeks style, but as long as you get a neat fit, the flush brass does look neat, I think....
Cheers,IW
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15th September 2018, 07:50 PM #9
Ian
One point of order here with the dueling saws. Shouldn't there be two of them? And identical?
And does that mean saw making retirement just got pushed back even further and in keeping with government policy?
Regards
PaulBushmiller;
"Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely!"
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15th September 2018, 08:08 PM #10
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15th September 2018, 08:09 PM #11
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15th September 2018, 08:21 PM #12
Paul,
Are we trying to digress here.?
Ian has admiral hung up his saw making tools.
I just hope and prey he’s not moving over to bird houses and potted plant boxes in treated pine and fence palings.
Tho Paul do you think, if I sent him a saw back and say you sent him some saw plate.
They might just sit on the bench or !!
Cheers Matt.
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15th September 2018, 08:28 PM #13SENIOR MEMBER
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Wow Ian, that's truly beautiful tools you build mate.
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15th September 2018, 09:17 PM #14
Fine..Fine
This is mine:
Simonds Back and Mitre saws 008.jpg
Regards
PaulBushmiller;
"Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely!"
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15th September 2018, 09:21 PM #15
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