Thread: Colour leads for marking timber

I find black crayons the best, and then dark blue ones too.

This I find good for marking out or transferring, and use them for multiple things.
I don't think these graphite sticks are expensive, you get them in the art shop, I believe this one is HB.
It's lasted so long (actually a pair, as it broke in half when I stood on it)
that it's barley legible.

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Tom

I've bought high quality white pencils from art supply places. The trouble with them is they are generally waxy and don't write the same way that a lead does in a drafting pencil or anything else, and the writability and durability are both less.

Even in the artist pencils, the lead itself seems to have a habit of working loose with some length lost in the pencil and literally slides out of the back of the wood. Preventable a number ways without trouble, but not often seen elsewhere. I'm guessing the alumina from the firing of the leads in a regular pencil gives the lead grip.

At any rate, drafting leads can also be found used on ebay, but they suffer the same thing - less bold marking.

As i was considering this, I thought "what we really need is a pen with a really fine ground pigment white paint".

So, any time you have an idea (like dog suspenders to put kid diapers on an aging dog at a lower cost by far than vet diapers), look on google and find it's out there 10,000 times over.

There are white gel pens, white paint pens, white squeeze paint pens (I guess so you can control how much flow you want).

I've gotten by with the white artist pencils by just sharpening them a lot, but they definitely leave something to be desired in terms of seeing a crisp edge of a mark.

I use a Bohin mechanical pencil with white lead (from a dressmaker/fabric store). It's 0.9mm and is fine for the little bit of work I do. I have wondered whether a welder's pencil or pen might be worth a try.

Photo of mint blue on darker wood and erased- cause it is annoying to see pencil marks after applying finish.
The pencil use is kind of interesting too.It has a "shake" advance, for the lead.

Like the narrow leads as they encourage accuracy and easier too erase.


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I use 2mm mechanical pencils for roughing out with both graphite and white leads; but I prefer to use a marking knife for accurate marking prior to cutting.

If knifed lines are difficult to see then a trick borrowed from various "how to" tips on dovetail marking is to use painters masking tape; apply a strip over the area you want to highlight; mark the lines into the wood through the tape and then peel away the "waste" side of the tape.

Picture lifted from Derek Cohen's site

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Hey mate, are you suggesting that I don't use my "shaker pencil", after the trouble I went to for its addictive nature?


PS : outlining edges with a pencil is pretty accurate. Outlines with a knife need care as the bevel need to spun 180 and masking tap cut out method is excellent for avoiding this error. Also, I realise I am selling coal to Newcastle.
limiting pencil marks size is handy, as sometimes they are pesky and the lines don't rub out.

Originally Posted by MartinCH

Photo of mint blue on darker wood and erased- cause it is annoying to see pencil marks after applying finish.
The pencil use is kind of interesting too.It has a "shake" advance, for the lead.

Like the narrow leads as they encourage accuracy and easier too erase.


IMG_6255.jpgIMG_6256.jpg

that's a pretty good note, and the comment elsewhere is accurate - if the white pencil has any dusty or chalky property instead of waxy like a good writing pencil that has a waxed lead, the white dust will go to the bottom of the deepest pore and show up brighter finished, often appearing when you thought it was missed.

one of the reasons I like the idea of a pen, too - the mark burnishes into the wood, but at least it's wet and doesn't penetrate or fall deeper into wood.

Same reason I don't like chalk in the shop even though that made its rounds as a "pro tip" to mark rough wood a few years ago. maybe for a lumberman, but i don't want the white dust on my bench or anything showing up on the face of something later.

It certainly would be nice to have a bright yellow or white .5mm pencil lead for marking dark timber when you can't/don't want to use a knife & end up with permanent lines on the workpiece. I don't think they exist, Martin, so if you can create something that works as well as good 'ol graphite leads, you'll have a small but eager market!

But the vast majority of layout lines are obliterated during the rest of the making process, and for those my preference is far & away the good old ancient marking knife. I've used French chalk to highlight knife & gauge marks on dark woods since we were shown the 'trick' by our woodwork teacher in grade 7 (that was quite a while ago!) & I have never had the slightest problem with it affecting any finish on any piece I've made. Even the lightest sanding or finish-planing would thoroughly eliminate any residue unless you go hog-wild with it. All it takes is a small pinch on the tip of my index finger wiped over the line; that's enough to make a nearly invisible line pop out more than sufficiently for my aging eyes: Chalked lines.jpg

People's attitude to residual layout marks is highly variable - there are those who delight in seeing the knife and gauge marks on antiques and copy the look on their own pieces. I've always tried to avoid any trace of residual marking out - probably again due to my grade 7 woodwork teacher, who thought they showed carelessness & sloppy work methods....

Cheers,

Ian

Don't forget that shaker pencils are quite addictive, and you need to find excuse to use them. I also prefer the constant width of mechanical pencils/

Most of my use for a pencil is for say id I have arranged the nicest way to a pattern the grain then I better mark up which side is up, which end is which and some idea of how to align the pieces. Not mention bet A connects to bet A and part B connects to B and so on. Or the classic , which side of that knife line am I was I cutting, again?

It always amazing how all the parts quickly turn back into a pile of timber and the propensity to try and fit square parts to round holes. The last one I thought I had solved in kindergarten!

I've used soap stone markers shaped to a chisel point in the past. If you google 'soap stone pencils' you will get some options for mechanical pencils and soap stone refills.

Cheers
M

Originally Posted by MartinCH

..... It always amazing how all the parts quickly turn back into a pile of timber and the propensity to try and fit square parts to round holes. The last one I thought I had solved in kindergarten!....

Yeah, know the feeling! Took me the longest time to learn to mark things clearly & diligently. Occasionally I forget, or remove the marks ready for glue-up, then get interrupted in the middle of the job for more than 5 minutes. The "where was I" feeling is not helped at all by a pile of nice, clean components if I didn't lay them out in strict order before hitting the pause button!

Micahael, thanks for the tip - I have long been familiar with soapstone as a carving medium, but didn't know it is a useful marking substance as well. It seems to be common knowledge for those who work with fabric, so looks like I need to tag along next time LOML goes to Spotlight....

Cheers,

My eyes or more eno these days and this thread made me curious. So I bought a few mechanical pencils to try, some mentioned here already. They were the Gersoniel mechanical pencil with silver lead, a Bohin mechanical 0.9mm with white lead, seems a bit waxy, a Bohin mechanical pencil 3.2mm with white lead, a bit chalky, I thought it was soapstone, maybe reconstitued soapstone. And for good measure an engineers soapstone pencil and Staedtler red carpenter pencils.

For the most difficult of surfaces I chose chocolate hand planed spotted gum, smooth and a bit waxy.

Engineers pencil may be good for marking RS timber, but as Rob said, hard to remove the chalk marks. Easy to see in any light though. The Gersionel silver is OK into reflected light, very hard to see in other light, hard to sharpen to a sharp point and blunts quickly, removes with damp cloth easily. The Bohin 3.2mm pencil was much the same as the engineers pencil, a bit softer and so blunted quickly, might be all right for marking RS timber, same problem with dusty chalk removal. The Bohin 0.9mm pencil was easy to see in reflected light, hard to see in other lights. The Staedtler red carpenters pencil was good in reflected light, not so good in other light, it is still my marker of choice for carpentry.
I'm still seeking something better than a knife mark or a 0.5mm 2B mechanical pencil. Good directional lighting seems to be the key with pencil. Where can I get these 'shaker' pencils?

Photo pairs are into and away from light.
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Hi Michael

Shaker pencils advance the lead by shaking the pen. Kind of fun. Handy when marking timber, as 0.5mm leads are prone to break with the surface roughness.

Office works has one Tombow Mono Mechanical Pencil 0.5mm Tricolour Barrel | Officeworks


have also ordered on eBay 0.7mm yellow from pilot and a pilot 2020 0.7mm shaker pencil. Pilot 2020 Shaker Super Grip Mechanical Pencil 0.7mm - 3 Colors (Select) | eBay

But I have not tried the yellow, as of yet. The light blue has been pretty good, but still hoping for better.

Rewgards

Hi Martin. Have you seen the Pica range of mechanical pencils? I bought one (and a extra packet of white leads) recently for marking on dark timbers. Works well but they are easy to snap. Leads are sort of waxy and soft.