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Thread: Knew concept fret saw
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21st March 2019, 05:33 PM #1
Knew concept fret saw
have moved from gifkins to hand cut dovetails with david barron guide, tough part is removing the waste and looking at the amazing knew concepts fret saw , have read every review I can find but still puzzled about a few issues I like the 3 or 5 inch fret saw,as I just need it for dovetail boxes, do you recommend the swivel head model, does the standard saw without have the ability to swivel and rotate to 45 degrees each way?, d. barron just turns the blade in the cut from down to horizontal to remove the waste, I like the lever tensioning although not necessary also, the 3 inch and 5 inch are prized closely , think the 5 inch would provide more options, this subject has been covered but still unsure about these points, thanks to long term owners for your opinions , Rossco
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21st March 2019, 06:38 PM #2
I bought the 5" one and find it excellent. I'm still practising with it but I find it much easier to use than my 'typical design' coping saw.
I got the heavy duty one and it's incredibly stiff. I like the cam lever tension because you can get great tension on the blade. And the blades really sings a much higher note compared to the tension I can get on my coping saw. I don't know that that extra tension is really necessary though. It probably just makes it easier for me due to my poor technique as I don't get as much binding compared to the coping saw. Still I do like how easy it is to adjust.
If I could have two I'd get the 3" as well as I'd use that more. I bought the 5" without experience of what I really needed so would have preferred the 3". Guess it depends how large you need it but the 3" would have been easier for me... They are very light though.
Regards Adam
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21st March 2019, 08:37 PM #3
If David Barron does not use the KC fretsaw at a 45 degree angle, it must be because all he dovetails are short box sides. I use mine for carcases as well, and the 45 degree angle permits any length to be sawn. For this reason, a 3" saw will work just as efficiently as 5" saw.
I wrote about the development of this fretsaw here: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolRev...tsFretsaw.html
And I wrote a comparison of the standard vs birdcage fretsaws here: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolRev...geFretsaw.html
Note that I only have the titanium saws, and all in 5" - not the 3". My recommendation, years ago now, was that I could see a standard 3" version as most likely to be the preferred model for those dedicating it to sawing dovetail waste. I must emphasise that I have not used such a saw. This is based on my experiences with the 5" range.
As with a dovetail saw, the fretsaw must be held as lightly as possible. Never force the cut. Let the saw do the work. A way of determining how you are doing is to watch the blade – it should hardly deflect. You should be rewarded with a fairly straight saw cut.
Regards from Perth
DerekVisit www.inthewoodshop.com for tutorials on constructing handtools, handtool reviews, and my trials and tribulations with furniture builds.
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22nd March 2019, 04:23 PM #4
thanks Sratman and Derek for your replies, I just want to be certain about a feature of the standard version of the fret saw,that is without the swivel blade feature which allows the blade to be rotated 360 degrees, does the standard version of the saw allow the blade to be rotated 45 degrees to the left and right ?im up to speed on lever tension and heavy duty or mk4 models,just need this confirmed, theres a degree of ambiguity in the web sites or maybe its a date of birth issue , thanks, Rossco
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22nd March 2019, 04:26 PM #5SENIOR MEMBER
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Paul Sellers recently posted a video on YouTube concerning coping saws:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02d8DPTMqNU&t=966s
You may want to watch this video. Some food for thought.
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22nd March 2019, 05:08 PM #6Visit www.inthewoodshop.com for tutorials on constructing handtools, handtool reviews, and my trials and tribulations with furniture builds.
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23rd March 2019, 02:30 PM #7
Like Woodsurfer, I am slowly beginning to look at coping saws myself, and had separately stumbled across that video. I have always wondered what the Knew Concepts saw brings to the table that a "normal" one doesn't have, and from all I can understand, there isn't anything?
I truly do feel I must be missing something though?
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23rd March 2019, 03:26 PM #8
Hi Midnight Man thanks for your interest in the thread. I believe the overwhelming opinion is that the knew concept saw is a game changer , the truss frame in light , strong, the tensioning mechanism is far superior, and the ability to get into the tight saw kerfs of the dovetails cuts and saw straight across will save lots of time and frustration.Paul Sellars is a great craftsman and his videos are great, however he is sawing pine and making broad cuts, we are mostly working in our dense hard timbers, I have a similar coping or fret saw to his model, I have to drill small holes in the waste to get the saw to turn,the tension is never enough,if you can cough the bucks its the saw to get, unanimous opinion.Talking to the guy at Lie Neilson yesterday it seems only the swivel blade model will turn 45 and also right round 360 thanks Rossco
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23rd March 2019, 03:57 PM #9
First of all, the comparison is apples vs oranges. Paul Sellers is using a coping saw and, as far as I can tell, the discussion to date has been about a fret saw. They are quite different in the blades used and how they cut.
The fret saw is a tool of precision. The coping saw is a coarser instrument. Both have a place. One can use them interchangeably, however they will produce different results.
A coping saw has a wider, thicker blade and does not turn corners as sharply as a fret saw. Here is a coping saw removing the waste from a socket (breadboard end) ...
It is necessary to make 2 or 3 cuts. The coping saw used here was an Olson, essentially the same saw as the one Paul Sellers used.
I can use a coping saw with a thin blade (they are available, but not a common choice) with dovetail pin sockets, but there will fat corners as the blade will still not turn as tightly as a fret saw.
Here is the KC coping saw ...
The major difference between the Olson and the KC coping saws is that the KC enables the blade to be indexed at eight 45 degree segments for 360 degrees. The frame is also much tauter that an Olson, and it tensions better for greater precision.
The fret saw is designed to be used with a light, thin blade. It can turn very tightly. It is possible to run the blade down a dovetail saw kerf and cut straight across the baseline. A coping saw will struggle with this ++++
If I did not post the link to my original article on the KC fret saw, please read it: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolRev...tsFretsaw.html
Regards from Perth
DerekVisit www.inthewoodshop.com for tutorials on constructing handtools, handtool reviews, and my trials and tribulations with furniture builds.
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24th March 2019, 09:15 AM #10
The KC saw looks to be good, but clearly not necessarily perfect. It appears the handle could be better:
Replacement handle kits for Knew Concept saws
There was a remedy available made up in a small batch by Forum member Fletty, but I don't know that this is still available.
Regards
PaulBushmiller;
"Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely!"
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24th March 2019, 01:32 PM #11
My recommendation for the handle is that you make it longer, not just prettier. This improves the balance of the saw, which is already good, a little more.
It makes it easier to steady the saw with two hands, which you may like once you try it ...
Regards from Perth
DerekVisit www.inthewoodshop.com for tutorials on constructing handtools, handtool reviews, and my trials and tribulations with furniture builds.
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24th March 2019, 06:19 PM #12GOLD MEMBER
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Then there is the Frank Klausz version for a bit of light hearted relief.
CHRIS
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24th March 2019, 07:08 PM #13
Chris
I have so far only watched to the five minute mark, but already I am giggling.
Of course I don't think he would be cutting the waste out in a couple of strokes if that were Gidgee . I am still not quite sure how he turns the blade even after watching quite closely. Perhaps that is why they are called turning saws
Regards
PaulBushmiller;
"Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely!"
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24th March 2019, 07:24 PM #14
I smile every time I watch Frank. He has been doing this same set up for decades, and his experience shows. I do enjoy his humour. Really nice guy.
Incidentally, he has retired and is selling his house and workshop, so you can buy it. I doubt that it includes his famous saws.
Regards from Perth
DerekVisit www.inthewoodshop.com for tutorials on constructing handtools, handtool reviews, and my trials and tribulations with furniture builds.
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24th March 2019, 10:21 PM #15GOLD MEMBER
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Frank is a class act and the saws without Frank would be pointless. I know a chap who is around the same age and nationality and skill wise I doubt if there would be much in it. Extraordinarily talented in so many ways but then they did a hard apprenticeship and earned their living so it was either get good or go hungry I guess.
CHRIS
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