Thread: Knew concept fret saw

I bought the 5" one and find it excellent. I'm still practising with it but I find it much easier to use than my 'typical design' coping saw.
I got the heavy duty one and it's incredibly stiff. I like the cam lever tension because you can get great tension on the blade. And the blades really sings a much higher note compared to the tension I can get on my coping saw. I don't know that that extra tension is really necessary though. It probably just makes it easier for me due to my poor technique as I don't get as much binding compared to the coping saw. Still I do like how easy it is to adjust.
If I could have two I'd get the 3" as well as I'd use that more. I bought the 5" without experience of what I really needed so would have preferred the 3". Guess it depends how large you need it but the 3" would have been easier for me... They are very light though.

Regards Adam

If David Barron does not use the KC fretsaw at a 45 degree angle, it must be because all he dovetails are short box sides. I use mine for carcases as well, and the 45 degree angle permits any length to be sawn. For this reason, a 3" saw will work just as efficiently as 5" saw.

I wrote about the development of this fretsaw here: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolRev...tsFretsaw.html

And I wrote a comparison of the standard vs birdcage fretsaws here: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolRev...geFretsaw.html

Note that I only have the titanium saws, and all in 5" - not the 3". My recommendation, years ago now, was that I could see a standard 3" version as most likely to be the preferred model for those dedicating it to sawing dovetail waste. I must emphasise that I have not used such a saw. This is based on my experiences with the 5" range.

As with a dovetail saw, the fretsaw must be held as lightly as possible. Never force the cut. Let the saw do the work. A way of determining how you are doing is to watch the blade – it should hardly deflect. You should be rewarded with a fairly straight saw cut.






Regards from Perth


Derek

thanks Sratman and Derek for your replies, I just want to be certain about a feature of the standard version of the fret saw,that is without the swivel blade feature which allows the blade to be rotated 360 degrees, does the standard version of the saw allow the blade to be rotated 45 degrees to the left and right ?im up to speed on lever tension and heavy duty or mk4 models,just need this confirmed, theres a degree of ambiguity in the web sites or maybe its a date of birth issue , thanks, Rossco

Paul Sellers recently posted a video on YouTube concerning coping saws:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02d8DPTMqNU&t=966s

You may want to watch this video. Some food for thought.

Originally Posted by woodsurfer

thanks Sratman and Derek for your replies, I just want to be certain about a feature of the standard version of the fret saw,that is without the swivel blade feature which allows the blade to be rotated 360 degrees, does the standard version of the saw allow the blade to be rotated 45 degrees to the left and right ?im up to speed on lever tension and heavy duty or mk4 models,just need this confirmed, theres a degree of ambiguity in the web sites or maybe its a date of birth issue , thanks, Rossco

The fretsaws can angle up to 45 degrees each side. The coping saw can rotate the blade 360 degrees.

This is the depth of cut of the 3 sizes available (3", 5" and 8") ...






Regards from Perth

Derek

Originally Posted by homesy135

Paul Sellers recently posted a video on YouTube concerning coping saws:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02d8DPTMqNU&t=966s

You may want to watch this video. Some food for thought.

Like Woodsurfer, I am slowly beginning to look at coping saws myself, and had separately stumbled across that video. I have always wondered what the Knew Concepts saw brings to the table that a "normal" one doesn't have, and from all I can understand, there isn't anything?

I truly do feel I must be missing something though?

Hi Midnight Man thanks for your interest in the thread. I believe the overwhelming opinion is that the knew concept saw is a game changer , the truss frame in light , strong, the tensioning mechanism is far superior, and the ability to get into the tight saw kerfs of the dovetails cuts and saw straight across will save lots of time and frustration.Paul Sellars is a great craftsman and his videos are great, however he is sawing pine and making broad cuts, we are mostly working in our dense hard timbers, I have a similar coping or fret saw to his model, I have to drill small holes in the waste to get the saw to turn,the tension is never enough,if you can cough the bucks its the saw to get, unanimous opinion.Talking to the guy at Lie Neilson yesterday it seems only the swivel blade model will turn 45 and also right round 360 thanks Rossco

Originally Posted by Midnight Man

Like Woodsurfer, I am slowly beginning to look at coping saws myself, and had separately stumbled across that video. I have always wondered what the Knew Concepts saw brings to the table that a "normal" one doesn't have, and from all I can understand, there isn't anything?

I truly do feel I must be missing something though?

First of all, the comparison is apples vs oranges. Paul Sellers is using a coping saw and, as far as I can tell, the discussion to date has been about a fret saw. They are quite different in the blades used and how they cut.

The fret saw is a tool of precision. The coping saw is a coarser instrument. Both have a place. One can use them interchangeably, however they will produce different results.

A coping saw has a wider, thicker blade and does not turn corners as sharply as a fret saw. Here is a coping saw removing the waste from a socket (breadboard end) ...



It is necessary to make 2 or 3 cuts. The coping saw used here was an Olson, essentially the same saw as the one Paul Sellers used.



I can use a coping saw with a thin blade (they are available, but not a common choice) with dovetail pin sockets, but there will fat corners as the blade will still not turn as tightly as a fret saw.

Here is the KC coping saw ...



The major difference between the Olson and the KC coping saws is that the KC enables the blade to be indexed at eight 45 degree segments for 360 degrees. The frame is also much tauter that an Olson, and it tensions better for greater precision.

The fret saw is designed to be used with a light, thin blade. It can turn very tightly. It is possible to run the blade down a dovetail saw kerf and cut straight across the baseline. A coping saw will struggle with this ++++



If I did not post the link to my original article on the KC fret saw, please read it: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolRev...tsFretsaw.html

Regards from Perth

Derek

The KC saw looks to be good, but clearly not necessarily perfect. It appears the handle could be better:

Replacement handle kits for Knew Concept saws

There was a remedy available made up in a small batch by Forum member Fletty, but I don't know that this is still available.

Regards
Paul

My recommendation for the handle is that you make it longer, not just prettier. This improves the balance of the saw, which is already good, a little more.



It makes it easier to steady the saw with two hands, which you may like once you try it ...



Regards from Perth

Derek

Then there is the Frank Klausz version for a bit of light hearted relief.

Chris

I have so far only watched to the five minute mark, but already I am giggling.

Of course I don't think he would be cutting the waste out in a couple of strokes if that were Gidgee . I am still not quite sure how he turns the blade even after watching quite closely. Perhaps that is why they are called turning saws

Regards
Paul

I smile every time I watch Frank. He has been doing this same set up for decades, and his experience shows. I do enjoy his humour. Really nice guy.

Incidentally, he has retired and is selling his house and workshop, so you can buy it. I doubt that it includes his famous saws.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Frank is a class act and the saws without Frank would be pointless. I know a chap who is around the same age and nationality and skill wise I doubt if there would be much in it. Extraordinarily talented in so many ways but then they did a hard apprenticeship and earned their living so it was either get good or go hungry I guess.