Couple more back saws

**IanW** · 11th June 2011, 06:51 PM

A couple more pairs, that is.

On another thread, the reasons for making one's own tools was discussed. I said 'yes' to several choices like saving money, to make tools for a special job, and a few more I can't remember. But the honest answer is, it's an obsession!

.

These two 'sets' of saws were sort of in the works, but were not supposed to happen until I finished a couple more jobs that should have stayed higher up the priority list. My excuse is I hurt my shoulder a few days ago, so the job I was doing (breaking up some old concrete) had to be postponed for a couple of days. What a nuisance, - off to the shed instead.

What happened was I decided to 'fix' a small saw I'd made quite a while ago. A small dovetail (220mm long) with a handle from a small chunk of fiddleback Myall I picked up years ago. It was supposed to be a dovetail saw, but I got the handle wrong (the grip angle was too high), so I decided to convert it to an 18 tpi crosscut instead. The handle needed a bit of touching up, too - I had too much recurve on the bottom horns - it was too snug a fit, even for my hands, so I altered it a bit & it's a lot better. While I was at it, I made a 'matching' dovetail saw from thinner (15 thou) plate, with 18tpi, to use up the other piece of Myall left from the first saw.

To maintain the high, I made two more saws. These are going to be part of a very special set of tools I plan to make over the next year or two, using some Ring Gidgee I bought a bit over a year ago. (Not saying what the other tools will be, yet, in case I change my mind - or more likely, have a complete disaster with one or two!

) The larger saw is 250mm crosscut, 20 thou plate, 17 tpi high grip angle for bench use, and the other is 225mm rip, also 17 tpi, 15 thou plate with a grip angle suited to dovetail sawing. This size & pattern is what I reckon (at the moment!) to be the 'ultimate' for 'regular' dovetails - i.e. up to standard drawer sizes. These saws were supposed to be 16 tpi, but the template I printed out came a bit undersized. I suppose there is very little practical difference between 16 & 17 tpi.

Both the Myall & Gidgee were ok to work, but the Gidgee needed extreme care with the smoothing stages, to get a really clean surface - lots of fine scraping happened. I did my best with the pics, but they don't do the handles full justice, especially the Myall. You really need to roll them back & forth in good light to see the full depth & the patterns in the wood.

All saws are cutting well, but I broke a tooth on the larger crosscut during sharpening!

I'm having some problems sorting out my new Somax blue saw-set. I decided it was slightly under-setting the smaller teeth, so cranked it up a wee bit. Dammit, I overset to blazes - instead of about the upper 3rd of the tooth, it pushed them over from the base. I will have to joint & resharpen a couple of times to bring them back to where they ought to be, but in the meantime, the saw cuts ok & the missing fang doesn't affect either smoothness or quality of cut.

OK - back to breaking up cement tomorrow.

Cheers,

**Ironwood** · 11th June 2011, 07:43 PM

Wow !! They are beautiful looking saws

I bet they are a pleasure to use as well.

**RufflyRustic** · 11th June 2011, 10:32 PM

I think these are the pair that Ian showed me at the show. They are a pleasure to hold and I'm betting even nicet to use.

**Claw Hama** · 11th June 2011, 10:37 PM

Yes more beautiful work Ian

**planemaker** · 12th June 2011, 01:55 AM

Wonderful saws Ian. Interesting you mention your Blue Somax. Since I have been using mine I have had nothing but problems. The metal on the anvil disk looks like its far too soft to withstand the pressure as the hammer pushes against each saw tooth. V indentations in the metal of the anvil making fine set near impossible. I will need to look at either replacing the disc with something much harder, or file the hammer to suit on my old Stanley 42x and use that.

Stewie.

**IanW** · 12th June 2011, 08:43 AM

Originally Posted by RufflyRustic

I think these are the pair that Ian showed me at the show. They are a pleasure to hold and I'm betting even nicet to use.

Nope, Wendy - these are brand new, hot off the press & I think much nicer than the ones you saw....

Cheers,

**IanW** · 12th June 2011, 08:58 AM

Originally Posted by planemaker

...... Interesting you mention your Blue Somax. Since I have been using mine I have had nothing but problems. The metal on the anvil disk looks like its far too soft to withstand the pressure as the hammer pushes against each saw tooth. V indentations in the metal of the anvil making fine set near impossible. I will need to look at either replacing the disc with something much harder, or file the hammer to suit on my old Stanley 42x and use that.

Stewie.

Hmm Stewie - must take a closer look at mine under the magnifier. It could well be that either the plunger or the anvil has deformed a bit on mine, too. It was fine for the first couple of saws I used it on, they were very fine teeth, from 18 to 24 tpi. Where I had trouble was with the larger teeth on the last two saws. It's a pity if this simple & otherwise good tool is spoiled by using inappropriate material.

I think you'll find you have to grind the plunger - it was too hard to file on the one I modified. It's a cow of a job holding that little bit of metal accurately, too - I should have taken the time to make a proper holder for it instead of my usual impatient 'give it a go' approach.

Cheers,

**Richie Rich** · 12th June 2011, 09:43 AM

Beautiful saws Ian, I was wondering if you could point me in the right direction as to where I could find out some more information on making saws, what materials to use for the blades, how to set joint and sharpen etc. Any help will be greatly appreciated as this looks like it could become a very addictive past time, cheers for now Richie.

**kevjed** · 12th June 2011, 09:57 AM

Hmmm,
SAWS.....
ringed gidgee set of tools...
OMG i'm in heaven
l'm looking forward to the rest of the set.
Thanks for the lesson in good taste.
Kevin

**Basilg** · 12th June 2011, 10:53 AM

Ian
Very well executed & nice looking saws.

All saws are cutting well, but I broke a tooth on the larger crosscut during sharpening

I suspect this may be the God of Saws indicating that a change in tooth cutting direction is needed

careful you don't overdo the cement restructuring

Regards

**Waldo** · 12th June 2011, 10:54 AM

**IanW** · 12th June 2011, 11:39 AM

Originally Posted by Richie Rich

Beautiful saws Ian, I was wondering if you could point me in the right direction as to where I could find out some more information on making saws, what materials to use for the blades, how to set joint and sharpen etc. Any help will be greatly appreciated as this looks like it could become a very addictive past time, cheers for now Richie.

Richie - there are numerous threads on the topic - if you do a search for saw making & include user names like mine & RayG you will turn up a heap of reading. One of the articles that helped me when I started was this bloke:

Norse Woodsmith | Woodworking Tools and Projects

I don't necessarily follow his methods - I slit my brass backs, for starters, partlly because it's so hard to get soft, bendable brass here in Oz, & mostly because it's a lot more accurate for backyard facilities.

Materials are both easy (brass) and hard (saw plate) to come by. Another forum member imported some rolls of plate via Wenzloff's in the US, and distributed them at a very good price, but that is all finished, now, I think. A good source of saw plate for the person who just wants to give it a go is old hard-point saws. The metal behind the 5 or 6mm that is impulse-hardened is ordinary saw plate & makes perfectly good saw material.

Anyway, do a search & some reading, & if you have specific questions, fire away - there are now several sawmakers on the forum.....

Cheers,

**IanW** · 12th June 2011, 11:48 AM

Hey Stewie - further to the saw set business. I went down & played with my blue Somax this morning. There was no 'bruising' on either anvil or plunger. When I took a good look at it, I realised that what happend is the the anvil spun around past the point I was trying to set it at, when I tightened the thumbscrew. The spring washer under the shoulder of the screw is a bit too strong and the anvil is smooth & hard to hold in position while I tighten it. So taking a bit more care in setting the anvil may be all that I need to do....

While I had it apart to check the plunger, I noticed it was a bit roughly finished (looks like it too, was just freehanded on a grinding disc). So I tried a file on it, & it's quite soft & easily filed, unlike the Eclipse plunger I modified some years ago. It is now symmetrical & mating nicely with the angle of the anvil. So file away - it may be that a bit of careful cleaning-up improves matters for you.....

Cheers,
PS - I just had another thought - if you are marking the anvil, it may be that you are squeezing the set a bit too hard - it doesn't take much pressure to bend those litte points. But you are probably well aware of that, so that may not be the issue.

**Whit68** · 12th June 2011, 08:54 PM

WOW Ian - they are fantastic!

regards
Anthony

**derekcohen** · 12th June 2011, 09:46 PM

Hi Ian

I turn my back for a day or two (no internet) and you go and build a couple more master pieces! And to think I was considering building a dovetail saw this weekend (but stuck with the game plan on the Military Chests). Thank Gawd ... it would have been embarrassing.

How much set are you putting on the saws? I removed all the set from my LN dovetail saw some months ago and have been using it sans-set since. In Jarrah it will bind a little, but a touch of wax fixes that. It certainly cuts cleanly, and of course it is easier to place on the line and saw a kerf where you want it to be. I quite like it this way. The next step is a dovetail saw sans set and taper ground!!!! Anyone done this? I know that Mike Wenzloff has made a tenon saw like this, but a dovetail saw ...?

There's the next challenge!

Regards from Perth

Derek

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