Thread: Diamond Lapping Film

Originally Posted by ch!ppy

actually i read Jim's comment in a different way, to say that he doesnt think there is an avantage in portability unless comparing to waterstones, e.g waterstones would be more cumbersome than this, however compared to other honing methods not much difference considering you have to carry around something ,glass/stone etc. to place these on


adding water or such is not so much to "lubricate" but to float or wash away the swarf off the surface where it can damage the edge your trying to hone, in coarser grits, water with detergent added is often all thats needed but with the ''micro' abrasives (for lack of better word that escapes me atm) it was found many years ago that didnt work as well, there are a number of alternatives that seem to work, some cheap household kitchen cleaners seem to work as do some oils, some cheap home brew recipes that i use to clean my LP's does ok too, WD-40 works very well too, pick your poison! its not a new thing though so i think Derek you reinvented the wheel

so far the trouble i have noticed with diamond abrasives (both mono and poly diamonds) in the fine mesh size (again its not new, although perhaps new from that retailer i guess) is not from swarf damaging the edge but from the diamond particles breaking off and wedging in-between the others and tearing a groove in the metal, not easy to see. so far diamond to me is more suitable in larger grits but i am always in hope they will come out with a fine diamond mesh that will hold up, not sure if its possible yet, just keep trying em out i guess...until then there are other options for good honing with advantages or disadvantages as case maybe

still wouldnt compare these to W&D paper, its not a suitable or recommended abrasive for tools, that guys post was entertaining to say the least


cheers
chippy


haha, edit, always the way, just as i type he replies lol

Why is there a constant reference to W&D? This thread has nothing to do with W&D. It has been taken out of context all the way through.

Jim, a touch of liquid detergent is great with water for waterstones. Indeed it is essential when using Shaptons to reduce stiction, and my frequent recommendation. When I began using the diamond film I thought to use it there as well. It was better than water alone, but a light oil was better still. I chose Camillia as it was what I had, and I knew that it did not affect any finish on wood.

adding water or such is not so much to "lubricate" but to float or wash away the swarf off the surface where it can damage the edge your trying to hone...

Ch!ppy, in essence I agree with you, but "lubrication" is also correct. Whether it is water or water-plus-detergent or oil, the aim is to reduce surface tension. It is this that facilitates the removal the swarf. Not being picky here - just clarifying/broadening my choice of words.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Originally Posted by derekcohen

Why is there a constant reference to W&D? This thread has nothing to do with W&D. It has been taken out of context all the way through.

Jim, a touch of liquid detergent is great with water for waterstones. Indeed it is essential when using Shaptons to reduce stiction, and my frequent recommendation. When I began using the diamond film I thought to use it there as well. It was better than water alone, but a light oil was better still. I chose Camillia as it was what I had, and I knew that it did not affect any finish on wood.



Ch!ppy, in essence I agree with you, but "lubrication" is also correct. Whether it is water or water-plus-detergent or oil, the aim is to reduce surface tension. It is this that facilitates the removal the swarf. Not being picky here - just clarifying/broadening my choice of words.

Regards from Perth

Derek

have to agree to disagree about the term lubrication being correct, its not really import enough for me to explain or debate about

but e'gads derek, seems like you want the conversation to go just the way you want and nothing else, you brought up the comparison of this film vs W&D in post number #34, i replied after that, and frankly you could have taken my comment as supportive (for what ever reason you chose not to), you have since posted more info about W&D legitimate use in tool sharpening/honing (so ok for you to talk about but no-one else!)

further there is no reason why it should not be discussed, if its good enough for LeeValley to make the comparison between this film and W&D on their web page, advertising this diamond film, why on earth cant we comment on it, if nothing else but to show the distinct inequality of it.


cheers
chippy

Hey Derek,

Do your jarrah support plates stay properly flat?

I've got a couple of sets of these stuck to plate glass. Very happy with the results AFTER I've put the blade over a stone (bester 1 & 2 k) to prep first.

Have to support Derek assessment to be careful with rough blades. Have damaged both of my sets through careless/inattentive/inexperience 'd work practices. Still working fine though even with gougers and grooves in them though.

Cheers All

Dave W.

Another thing I've noticed with these is that the edges raise when I use light oil. Not so much with water, but still there. Have to cut the raised bit off by slanting or skewing the blade (that I'm sharpening!) along the raised edge to remove it.

Cheers All

Dave W.

Hi Dave

Yes, be careful with sharp edges. They will slice up the film.

I've not noticed any movement with the Jarrah so far, but I've only used it this way about a month (also, there is a layer of hard plastic glued to the Jarrah, which is sealed with Danish Oil, and then the film is attached on top of that).

I have mainly used the film stuck to a granite. There has not been any loosening of edges at all with either water or oil. In fact, removing used sections required some effort.

Let us know how long they keep cutting for you. I was surprised when the film looked knackered and still kept going.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Derek and Gunnie,
You both mentioned film tearing. Do you think there is any risk of bits of diamond film floating around the workshop?
Cheers,
JIm

None, in my experience Jim. These do not break down into particulate matter of any type that I can see, if that is your concern.

The plastic backing or whatever it is seems very hardy. It does slice easily and cleanly, but only when you dig into it or cut/slice across it. With a little care, these seem very robust.

Properly used as a honing or final sharpening medium, as suggested by Derek, I've found these superb. I must also note though that I've abused mine and they have held up beyond my expectations, just not without damage.

Cheers all
Dave W.

Originally Posted by Old gunnie

None, in my experience Jim. These do not break down into particulate matter of any type that I can see, if that is your concern.

The plastic backing or whatever it is seems very hardy. It does slice easily and cleanly, but only when you dig into it or cut/slice across it. With a little care, these seem very robust.

Properly used as a honing or final sharpening medium, as suggested by Derek, I've found these superb. I must also note though that I've abused mine and they have held up beyond my expectations, just not without damage.

Cheers all
Dave W.

tis quite durable, its polyester or Mylar if you know it by that

chippy

Thanks Gunnie. I had visions of cut off fragments floating around like the old audio tapes
cheers,
Jim

Originally Posted by ch!ppy

tis quite durable, its polyester or Mylar if you know it by that

chippy

So you can make sails out of it. Definitely cut through the wind.
Cheers,
Jim

Originally Posted by jimbur

Derek and Gunnie,
You both mentioned film tearing. Do you think there is any risk of bits of diamond film floating around the workshop?

Hi Jim

I am not sure if you are kidding. Are you?

I must also note though that I've abused mine and they have held up beyond my expectations, just not without damage.

Dave, what I plan to try next, once I have a piece of film that is too worn to cut decently, is to add some diamond paste of the same grit level. Will this recharge the mylar?

I've just received a fresh lot of paste - I was out of it until now - so perhaps I will be able to get around to it in the near future.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Hi Derek,
Not kidding. It's the word film that misled me. As I said I had visions of something very light floating in the workshop like bits of the old audio tape that you still occasionally see decorating the roadside.
Cheers,
Jim

perhaps I should have added a to my last post. Consider it done.
Jim