Thread: An ealy Disston dovetail saw

Stewie,

No problem.

Rob

Early Disston Dovetail blade depth shots 002.jpg

P.S. Here's the other two.

Modern carcass saw blade depth shots 002.jpg

Modern carcass saw blade depth shots 001.jpg

I used an iPhone 5 to take all of the photo's in this thread, apparent distortions may be due to the camera used.

Rob; appreciate the clarification.

regards Stewie;

Happy to be of help Stewie.

Originally Posted by rob streeper

...... I think people these days like their tools to be heavy. Very few people are interested in steel or stainless backed saws, I like them though......

Funny you should say that, I've noticed a similar trend. Not sure why that is, p'raps they just feel they're getting more metal for their $?
I used to only use 3/16" x 3/4" brass for the spines on my little 9" dovetail saws, which provides plenty of stiffness but keeps them light and easy to heft. With 15 thou plate & 15tpi, these saws cut plenty fast enough under their own weight. I use a variety of woods for handles, most of which are quite dense, and that puts the weight of the saw up a bit, but as it's concentrated in your hand, they still feel quite light. They come in at about 300g, give or take 10g.

Then I used a Cosman saw at a wood show, same tpi & length, width & thickness of blade almost identical to my saws, but with a much heavier spine and that hefty resin handle, it is a lot heavier. The grip also has a higher hang-angle than I like on a D/T saw. The saw I used was a demo saw & not factory sharp, so it cut a bit more slowly than one of my saws, despite the extra weight. It felt a bit clumsy in my hands, which is hardly surprising, when I'm so used to my own saws. But just for fun, I made a couple of saws with a heavier (1/4 x 3/4) spine and more lifted grips, and got a few people to compare them, quite confident they'd all opt for my style of lighter saw with its more vertical grip that suits the higher point above the bench that D/T & tenon saws are usually operated at. Only 1 person in 4 preferred the lighter saw when I gave them 3 or 4 saws to play with, and though it wasn't a statistically significant number in my test, the order of preference was by weight, every time.

So Mr. Cosman seems to have a winning formula......

Cheers,

Ian,

I find I do better work with a lighter and shorter saw. I find this saw with it's 2" depth of cut, 16" toothline and 600 gm. mass to be very awkward.

16 inch disston dovetail saw.jpg


Nonetheless people these days seem to like such things.

Cheers,
Rob

This just arrived.

OH Disston dovetail saw 1878-1888 left side.jpg

OH Disston dovetail saw 1878-1888 back side.jpg

1878-1888 medallion and pre-Glover type screws.

OH Disston dovetail saw 1878-1888 medallion.jpg

The toothline is 10-1/16", depth of cut at the toe is 2-1/8" and at the heel 2-3/32". The plate is non-taper ground and 0.0235" thick. 16 very scraggly points per inch. Mass = 342.8 gm.

These open handled Disstons are unusual but are easily found if you're patient.

Rob

I like the simplistic look of that saw and I think it would restore beautifully.

Regards
Paul

Paul,

I agree, it's a sweet saw, feels just right. One of these days when I get some time...

These saws are uncommon but by no means rare. I've watched several more saws of this type sold on eBay over the past year or so, Mostly for high to very high prices. This one came up on Tuesday afternoon during business hours so the bidding wasn't competitive.

The open handled dovetail saws by Disston seem to be most common in the pre-Golden Era periods between 1865 and 1896.

Regards,
Rob

Here's a shot showing all three saws discussed in this thread.

Three Disston Dovetail Saws.jpg

The 1860-1865 saw is at the top, the 1871-1876 saw is in the middle and the 1878-1888 is at the bottom. The hang angle varies a little between the saws, as does the length of the grip but the grip circumference is pretty much the same for all.

Open handle 19th century Disston dovetail saws have been popping up like mushrooms lately.

Four Disston Dovetails.JPG

The latest I've snagged is the second from the top in this picture. It's a 'one Son' saw dating from 1865-1871 according to the Disstonian medallion page. Online Reference of Disston Saws -- The Medallions

From the top are the 1860-1865, the 1865-1871, the 1871-1876 and the 1878-1888. Thus, in theory, I'm missing saws from the no medallion 1840's, the 1850's, the 1877-1878 and the 1888 to 1896 if they exist. After 1896 it's possible that the above types, whatever they are/were, were discontinued and replaced with the No. 70 saws.

This 1865-1871 saw is 12-3/4" long and the plate is 8-1/16" length, DOC at the toe is 1-3/4" and at the heel it's 1-7/8". The plate isn't tapered and is 0.022" thick and is very roughly toothed at about 16 PPI. The mass of the saw is 258 gm.

Originally Posted by rob streeper

After 1896 it's possible that the above types, whatever they are/were, were discontinued and replaced with the No. 70 saws.

Rob

From the Disstonian Institute, these saws were almost certainly No.4s.

Online Reference of Disston Saws -- Backsaws

As you can see they were not marketed as dovetail saws, although they can be used very well for this purpose in the finer tooth varieties and filed rip.

The Disston dovetail saws were either of the Gents pattern or open handled and of a thinner gauge.

Online Reference of Disston Saws -- Dovetail Saws

Regards
Paul

Paul,

I'm thinking of this Disstonian page Online Reference of Disston Saws -- An Open-Handled Backsaw where this picture is presented:

Disstonian OH dovetail.JPG

I've seen a couple of no-medallion Disston OH dovetails sell on eBay over the years, often for very high prices.

As to these being user modified No. 4's, I doubt it. The blade assemblies may have been from the same production line as No 4's (i.e. they're not taper ground) but the handles of the four saws I have appear to be original.

The handles of the OH dovetailers are quite different from those on contemporaneous Disston saws of similar size and configuration.

I only have two two-screw closed handle Disstons that correspond in time and size to the 1860-1865 and 1878-1888 open handled saws.

Here are the 1860-1865 saws. The closed handle saw is a No. 7 with a taper ground blade. Note the positioning of the screws on the saws.

1861-1865 disston dovetail above disston no 4.jpg

The differences in the handles isn't too apparent until you lay the dovetail on top of the closed handle.

1861-1865 disston dovetail overlaid on disston no 4.jpg

Here are the 1878-1888 saws. In this case the closed handle saw is a No. 4, the blade is not taper ground. As above, note the positioning of the screws in the handles.

1878-1888 disston dovetail and disston no 7.jpg

And when overlaid as above.

1878-1888 disston dovetail overlaid on disston no 7.jpg

Regards,
Rob

P.S. This somewhat less than perfect example does cause me some doubt. (https://www.ebay.com/itm/Rare-Dissto...UAAOSwPAxZ5lk3)

Disston dovetail ebay 110417a.JPG

Rob

You are quite right: My mistake. For some reason I did not look closely enough at your saws and was thinking they were closed handles. Please disregard my comments .

Regards
Paul

Paul,

And please excuse my heavy handedness in response. This arises from having too many synthetic organic chemists whining at me and saying things like "Are you sure that thing's calibrated...".


It's given me a bit of a complex over the years.
Regards,
Rob

BTW, most of these have come to me from the Northeastern and Northcentral states running from Pennsylvania up to Maine west to Illinois. The last two IIRC came from Indiana and Vermont respectively.