Ebay Droppings Thread.

[rob streeper]

I see, the wind helps to keep the flat surface clear of obstructions - correct?

[Bushmiller]

I see, the wind helps to keep the flat surface clear of obstructions - correct?

Exactly: So you must remember to remove the saw: Otherwise.....Tears!

Regards
Paul

[Colin62]

This is US$ and when converted to our$ comes to nearly $43.00. As to flogging it off......

Have you considered painting a nice landscape on it? That’s bound to increase the value...

[Bushmiller]

Have you considered painting a nice landscape on it? That’s bound to increase the value...

Aaaaaaagh! Heresy.

Actually, at least we might be able to see the saw in the pix. Maybe it is just not photogenic in the raw state..

Regards
Paul

[macg]

Paul,

I had a look at this sellers other items,
most had well lit photos, but others were
poor like the saw.

He has another listing, a group of 4 saws.
which were pictured well.

Also his feed back is not great ( 1 ) with a
negative about non sipping of an item with
eBay having to sort it out.

So you and Matt may want to pass on this one!!!

Graham.

[Bushmiller]

Thanks Graham

I had not even considered looking to see if he had anything else. I don't think his listings are one of the best entrances ever and as you say feedback is looking decidedly sus. Don't tell Matt there is a planishing hammer there. It looks as though it may have been photographed at the bottom of the Mariana Trench. I think it may even have a barnacle or two on it.

Regards
Paul

[Bushmiller]

I have pointed out before that used files sold on Ebay are about as attractive as used toilet paper. recently a bunch of flat files were put up as New Old Stock.

NEW files.jpg

This was the description:

NEW OLD STOCK … FLAT HAND FILES RASPS

Estate workshop find

18 Flat Hand Files Rasps

14 Black Diamond all 12" file w/3" rattail

2 M Nicholson (one with handle) 10" file plus handle and one 8" w/3" rattail

1 Kearney 10" file w/3" rattail

1 Simonds 12" file w/3" rattail

GREAT FOR MAKING KNIVES

Please view all pictures and ask any questions you may have before bidding
We ship w/in 48hrs of confirmed receipt of your payment


Thanks for looking

They didn't look very new to me and close ups showed them to be very used and to my mind anyway, very clogged up with metal.

New files 2.jpgNew files 3.jpg

I was going to post this to show how ridiculous it is to put up something so blatantly untrue. Even the description contradicts itself in saying that it is NOS butin the same breath points out that they are great for making knives. Who in their right minds uses new files for making knives?

I am pleased I did not post before because the listing has now ended:

18 NEW Flat Hand Files 12" Black Diamond, M Nicholson (2) Kearney (1) Simonds 1 | eBay

The files sold for US$ 61.00 Hmmm!

I also note that in the bidding the bidders' identities were not revealed so that raises a query in my mind too. I don't even know how they do that.



I think I have a small fortune sitting in an old tin somewhere in the shed.

Regards
Paul

[macg]

Paul,

would that be a small fortune in NOS files, or old buggered, used up files, at any rate the metal should still be good???

Graham

[Bushmiller]

Graham

My intent was for the old files, which I had previously thought were close to worthless, but now you mention it, the NOS represents quite a few coins too!

You are quite right about the steel being good and possible to recycle, but I feel bound to mention the words of warning when this subject comes up. It is that firstly the steel is extremely hard and extremely brittle! It has to be annealed before it can be re-purposed (and then re-hardened and tempered to suit the purpose). The second aspect is that the teeth on the files are stress lines and will have to be removed for most purposes.

Even with the teeth removed the stress lines may go below the surface of the steel and can still result in a metal failure. In many projects this will not matter beyond the time spent on the item. However some impact tools can result in catastrophic accidents. For this reason such re-purposing as lathe turning tools should probably be avoided even with the file teeth removed. Cold chisels would be another no no. Knives would be more a better bet including large marking knives.

Most regular frequenters of the Forum will already be aware of this so I am reiterating for the newcomer. I make no apology for this chorus and neither do I attach my normal frivolous or flippant comment. It is potentially too serious an issue

Regards
Paul

[derekcohen]

Paul, do you know how these files were made? I assume being machine made that the teeth are possibly not cut in the way a hand-made rasp is made (by chisel), in other words with some force. Could they be forged (compressed)? If so, grinding teeth away should (?) not create stress below the surface (?).

I am curious as old files are a possibly good source of blades. I thought they had always been, but your comment creates some doubt.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Bushmiller]

Derek

I think many people think of old files as a good source of high quality carbon steel and indeed they are: With the proviso to be very wary if the usage involves being subjected to significant side forces. Metal fatigue in industrial applications (think of aircraft here as an example) start with small hairline cracks invisible to the naked eye.

How are files made?It is easy to see the hande-made rasps of the likes of Liogier and the files are not too dissimilar. Whether made by hand or machine a striking technique is employed. The first search I came up with showed this:

How are files made?

Whilst the link describes the making by hand, the second pick shows a machine doing the same task. In removing the teeth from a file it is important to go below the teeth. How much further? I don't know, but I am not prepared to take the chance for a lathe tool as they are subjected to considerable force. The bigger files for bigger tools are subjected to even more force and the smaller tools have little material left after tooth removal. It is a no win situation. Somewhere on the Forum there is a reference to a horrific injury from this circumstance. If I find it I will post it here.

Another reference quoted for large handmade files the use of a 20lb hammer and the resultant fatigue for the person involved.

Regards
Paul

[IanW]

Paul, I'd been re-purposing spent files for 20 years before becoming aware of the dangers of propagation of cracks from the corners of the teeth gullets. Many were annealed & used in their annealed state for this & that without any attempt at re-hardening, so bending was more likely to be a problem than breaking. Just a couple of observations - the bottoms of the gullets of file teeth are not especially sharp, so how effective they are at starting a stress crack, I don't know. Second, if you've ever tried to break a file by putting it in a (sturdy) vise & whacking it with a large hammer, it takes quite a wollop to break a 10" file. (Yeah, I was a pretty stupid teenager & paid a price a couple of times for my 'experiments' ).

The files I've used in their raw state were ground into tools for turning brass on my wood lathe - I used to do that quite a bit before I got my little metal lathe. I ground the teeth off as much as I could, nainly for comfort's sake, but the patterns are still quite visible. I used a coupe of these for 20 plus years with no problems.

I think it's a bit like flying - the chances of a disaster are quite small, but when something does happen, it's pretty catastrophic!

Cheers,

[Bushmiller]

Ian

Three quarters, at least, of my turning tools I have made, but from car leaf springs as opposed to old files. I do have one old file that was given to me many years ago by a friend and it had already had the teeth filed off. I have never used it. It is true to say that I do very little wood turning and in fact for a long time the only items I made were handles for the turning tools .

I use the leaf springs as they are mostly more substantial, are less work than the files and with the advent of thin cutting discs for angle grinders the springs can easily be cut lengthwise to suit different shapes and sizes. I have even made gouges from them, although this is difficult and I don't recommend it.

I will continue my research into locating the horrible accident. The grim reaper of tool making.

Regards
Paul

[macg]

Hi all,

I saw recently, either on this site or another where someone posted the qualities of 2nd hand
steel items such as: leaf springs, coil springs, farm plough blades, etc.. etc..

Have any of you seen this chart???

It mentioned the many other uses that can be had from the many types of treatment applied to
each item with regard to its purpose.

Graham.

[Simplicity]

One more small point if you were to re purpose a modern file today.

Who the hell knows what goes into them.
At least even 20 years ago, you would have at least know what your steel type was, an been confident in what it was.

Cheers Matt