Thread: Engineers Square - reasonable quality

300mm ones get pricey! I've been very happy with the quality of my Hare and Forbes squares, they haven't got a 300mm one but the 225mm version is 75ish dollars.

Originally Posted by bueller

300mm ones get pricey! I've been very happy with the quality of my Hare and Forbes squares, they haven't got a 300mm one but the 225mm version is 75ish dollars.

Is it accurate? What tolerance?

Originally Posted by barri

Is it accurate? What tolerance?

From their site...

BSS:939 Grade "B"

Originally Posted by barri

Where can I buy a good quality square in Aus for under $100?.....

barri, how good does 'good' have to be? In an answer to a similar question a couple of years back, someone suggested going to Bunnings, checking a few squares against each other, and buying either of the two squares that match inside & outside - make it three squares if you want to increase the statistical chance that they are actually square & not all carying the same error. Not bad advise, I thought.

If your square matches within half a knife-line on the 'flip' test, you have a perfectly usable tool for any woodworking project. Squares get dropped/bashed occasionally no matter how careful we are, and need to be checked frequently. That's why I prefer an easily adjustable square, though most can be 'adjusted' by one means or another. Colen Clentons squares are not cheap, but so nice to use and you will have a tool for a lifetime, if you can bear the initial cost..

Personally, I think folks sometimes get carried away fussing about metal-working type precision in woodworking - you are, after all, wrestling with a material which is both elastic & unstable by nature. Accuracy to within the width of a knife-line over 200mm is usually more than sufficient for most purposes. I saw plenty of very good work being done in Asia with home-made wooden trysquares.....

Cheers,

Fair point Ian but this is for alignment purposes. If my Incra gauge is not bang on 90 then 45 won't be 45 and an inaccurate mitre really shows up when you make a picture frame. I sometimes use a sled for this and if the fences aren't right then an error will be obvious. I've also bought some squares from Bunnings and they are not square. I aligned my gauge with all of these and all of them gave a different reading. Also, all of them didn't give me an accurate 45. So which one do I trust. Table saw alignment is also important to me that's why many own dial indicators. Another similar precision instrument.

what about machinist square? you cant go wrong with Moore& Wright. even 2nd hand is better value than the new crops of square.

Originally Posted by Albert

what about machinist square? you cant go wrong with Moore& Wright. even 2nd hand is better value than the new crops of square.

Yep, they look good. Thanks

I also found .... https://www.cltoolcentre.com.au/accu...?search=square with an acceptable tolerance.These are also reasonably priced. I'd be happy with either of these.

EDIT ... Just ordered the C&L tools square after checking out the brand in the USA. Good enough for my needs

Looks good. Let us know how it actually goes when you have had a play with it.

If calibrating the Incra mitre gauge is the reason for wanting to buy a "precise" engineering or machine square. I recommend looking into alternatives. One that I could suggest is the 5 cuts method. You get a board of say 300 x 300 roughly. Size doesn't matter really, as long as there is enough edge to test for alignment and it isn't too awkward to handle. Using the mitre guide to make 4 cuts. After each cut, rotate the board by 90 degrees. On the fifth cut, you are trimming off a small strip of material from the edge you have made the first cut. Use a vernier caliper to measure the thickness of the strip near the ends and if there is a difference in your readings, divide the difference by 4. That would be correction you'll need to make over the length of the board. Only a simple trigonometry conversion is needed to get the correction in fractions of a degree you will need. Recalibrate and test again until accurate. It's probably more accurate than using any kind of square as a reference.
There is also another disadvantage in getting a expensive engineering square. They can be easily knock out of square if you happen to drop it. Unlike a quick square which is triangular and therefore much more robust against rotational movement. An engineering square of high accuracy isn't all that suitable in a woodworking workshop where things get knock about quite regularly.

Originally Posted by justonething

After each cut, rotate the board by 90 degrees.

I would also add to make sure that the edge that you have just cut is the one that you place against the fence.

When you have finished the calibration and got a "perfect" result cut the board diagonally and you have made two extremely accurate squares for free.

Originally Posted by barri

Fair point Ian but this is for alignment purposes. If my Incra gauge is not bang on 90 then 45 won't be 45 and an inaccurate mitre really shows up when you make a picture frame. I sometimes use a sled for this and if the fences aren't right then an error will be obvious. I've also bought some squares from Bunnings and they are not square. I aligned my gauge with all of these and all of them gave a different reading. Also, all of them didn't give me an accurate 45. So which one do I trust. Table saw alignment is also important to me that's why many own dial indicators. Another similar precision instrument.

Go to your newsagent and purchase a plastic draftsman's triangle (with one corner 90 degrees and another 45 degrees). These are usually bang-on.

Definitely the cheapest option for setting up a mitre gauge.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Originally Posted by justonething

If calibrating the Incra mitre gauge is the reason for wanting to buy a "precise" engineering or machine square. I recommend looking into alternatives. One that I could suggest is the 5 cuts method.

I've done the 5 cut method many times and yes it is accurate but I've found a better, quicker and simpler method. No mess, no noise and done in a few minutes. Have a look at this video .... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UC_iF5pZxmI and the corresponding comments made by the presenter. I'm an absolute convert. I have 3 home made sleds and one incra gauge and will use this method to square these and any in the future.

I've tried this and its brilliant and makes sense. The bottom line is that the mitre gauge is squared to the the slots via a dial indicator which is the way a mitre gauge sled moves. Just as accurate as the 5 cut method. I have posted about this in the Incra threads. The only requirement is an accurate square. Most of mine aren't. Hence why I started this thread.

For Sleds, you can use the 2 cuts method if you want to save time. Anyhow I haven't considered the time it takes as important because you only ever calibrate once. Besides, after you've done it once,

Originally Posted by Bohdan

When you have finished the calibration and got a "perfect" result cut the board diagonally and you have made two extremely accurate squares for free.

which you can use as substitutes for an engineering square.

I also rate the calibration as way more important than the time it takes, that's why I've used the 5 cut method in the past but If the calibration is quick and just as accurate then that's a win - win. The engineers square, which I've ordered, is not expensive and takes away a variable that might affect the result. As I said above all my squares are not spot on. Also, the engineers square has thicker sides which provides a better and smoother contact with the dial indicator. Have you watched the video? Give it a try?