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  1. #16
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    Apr 2009
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    Wollongong
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    88

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    There is a saying in English: "better is the enemy of good".

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  3. #17
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    poland
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    38
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    20

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    I have no idea if I ma doing it from an elbow or knee, it kind of get lost in translation . I am mostly leaning over the work and move with the work if that makes any sense.. The problems with sandpaper are numerous. Abresive might wear out in some areas quicker, or be uneven from the start. Flexing and bending of the surface and work piece under pressure, sandpaper rolling up, sliding over waste, or even something more silly i am missing here.

    I am planning to laminate myself 3 or 4 layers of thick glass to make 1 inch thick flat surface. This should be more stable than single pane anyway and i have the materials laying around the house in the scap pile. So it would even be beneficial for more than just me. I think 80x30 centimeters (36x13 inches) sized "galss playwood" should be enough.
    For abresive i have only two kinds localy avalable (aluminium oxide belts and sheets and this yellow glass shard belts) for anything else i would have to shop online or go to the town over.

    And yes I agree that better is an enemy of good. But in this case making things better kind of defeat itself.
    Maybe i should just give up and stay happy with what i have, then again i crave no7 plane and kind of fear it might be out of dimensions as well.
    All i have avalable is new stanley or chinese "silverline" for 2/5 of the stanley price and might be even better quality. Then again who knows how they come out of the factory
    Grind on my Handyman no4 out of the box was horyfying as if they used 20 grit abresive and took way too much off.

  4. #18
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    SC, USA
    Posts
    599

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    K...

    Stanley planes are generally good out of the box. Their irons are also very good steel and properly heat treated.... Much better in all regards than cheap Asian or India imports.. The next step up is a Quangsheng - which costs double or triple Stanley...

    Yes - the Stanley's grind looks rough, but the ones I have bought have been very square and plenty flat..... Cheap imports - not so much....

    I would not go all the way to a #7.. Start with a #4 and a #5.

  5. #19
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    poland
    Age
    38
    Posts
    20

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    truckjohn

    Sorry for saying that , but you kind of missing the point, or at least missing the point why I want #7.

    As i said before i already have 2 #4 planes. i also mentioned that I have #5 1/2 jack and wooden jointer. I left out my other tools Union no.100 squeril plane, #3 scrub plane (2 of those) homemade transitional plane around #4 and #5 1/4 size, wooden rabed plane and smashed bailey #4 i got for parts. I might have something more but i can't remember.
    And from those # 4 planes brand new stanley (handyman) is the 2nd worst buy i have made.
    Since i live in Poland, a country hit by WW I and WW II pretty hard, there is no used planes on the market, at least nothing made out of metal, and new Stanley if they are anything like handyman in casting design, i would rather buy a chinese plane and work with that. because i had to fricking mill the bed of that handyman plane to make frog sit in place, it was that bad. Also adjustment knob. Not to mention Stanley is an import brand in Poland and they cost a lot, for 2 stanley #7 i could get a dewalt 15 inch thickness planer.



  6. #20
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    poland
    Age
    38
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    20

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    Truckjohn
    Sorry to say this but it seems you missed the point, or at least missed why I want to buy #7.
    If you read trough my posts, you would know i already have 2 #4 planes, and one of them is indeed stanley (handyman) but i also have #5 1/2, wooden jointer, and things i did not mention, Union no.100 squirrel plane 2 #3 scrub planes, one transitional plane I made sized between #4 and #5 wooden rabed plane, and probably something more. I want #7 because I feel like I need one. Even if I only use it for jointing freatboards to guitar necks.
    I can agree that even current stanley blades are ok, but where i live, prices are not. Because of 2 world wars Poland don't have any maket for used stanley planes, they are rare and mostly not worth the effort because of their state. New stanley tools are imported here so their price is overblown out of proportion. I could buy 2 Stanley #7 (not handyman, proper stanley) for a price of 15 inches wide thickness planer, not even the cheapest one. I could get electric jointer for a price of just one. And other than that "silverline" brand i mentioned there is nothing else to buy. i would have to self import things, because there is nothing else to buy here.
    Also my experienc with stanley handyman brand make me want to keep away from that brand, because stanley handyman #4 i bought was 2nd worst plane i ever bought, and i have few sheet metal ones from home depot. I literally had to mill that plane bed for it to work.

  7. #21
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Melbourne
    Age
    34
    Posts
    6,127

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    Nothing on ebay? Surely there are some of the older Record and Stanley planes floating around Europe.

  8. #22
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    poland
    Age
    38
    Posts
    20

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    When I search ebay localy, there is nothing, ebay is not popular here anyway. We have our own auction site called allegro. And there is literally 2-6 cast iron planes in used category if any at a given time. Most of them broken or not complete. And they are asking 100$ or more for complete pre-restoration #4.
    But today one union #7 showed up on an auction so i might bid this one if it waren't welded or cracked before . Then again no blade, cap iron or lever cap.
    Chinese #7 comes with bedrock design frog, 4mm iron, rosewood handles, ductile iron body. and is stil sub 100$ new. They ask 15$ for #4 with plastic handles, 25$ with rosewood.

    Where domestic brand i was trying to support asks 20$ for #4 with plastic handles, sheet metal bottom and cast frog, and those planes don't even work, because of small design flaw, blade does not go out of the sole :] So i made myself my transitional grasshopper with that frog, and blade. With an added bonus of adjustable mouth. Isn't is cute?

    edit+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    by current dolar to plish zloty ratio chinese #7 cost 57$ with 3mm blade and 65$ with 4 mm blade , both with 5 year local shop guarantee

  9. #23
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    US
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    3,076

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    Quote Originally Posted by coffeefro View Post
    There is a saying in English: "better is the enemy of good".
    Perfect is the enemy of good (or good enough?).

  10. #24
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
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    US
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    Quote Originally Posted by kokodin View Post
    Thanks for your answers, they kind of work, but some of it I already know.
    Laping plates are for smaller, things i belive though.

    To be perfectly honest the whole idea about making flat reference surface came out of the simple thing, in my few years long engadgement with woodworking as hobby. More precisely guitar building.
    For a long time now I could make flatter boards (joints) than my tools were, and for some reason I never was able to fully flatten my planes , using internet techniques. Glass pane,stone tiles, or wooden beam shaved paralel to a straight edge, nothing seems to work for me as a laping surface for my planes. IF anything I am getting worse every time. I always get convex sole, no mater what I do. It might be only a printer paper out of flat on both ends, but for no4 plane it is a lot in my head. for a jack that would be even more, because curvature seems the same.
    I am mad on myself for that, and got even more bumped down when i read mr.Paul Sellers blog about import planes, part 4 i belive. Picture with filler gauges mede me scream why is it not working for me?
    Plane collector videos are also very interesting, again he seems to be doing the same thing with no problems.
    If you want to make a plane dead flat:
    * flat reference surface, lap a few laps and see where the high spots are (I have planed my bench flat and a glass shelf on it is less than 1 1/2 thousandths of an inch out of flat over 24 inches under pressure.
    * then you either draw file with the end of a flexible file to work the high spots down, and then repeat the first bullet to see if they're the same
    * Once the entire plane is flat and high spots are relatively minor, then you lap for cosmetics on the plane sole

    I have found over the years that hand lapping only, and doing it well on a fast cutting PSA paper that is stuck to the glass will yield a long plane that is about 4 or so thousandths proud at the toe and heel (of the mouth), but most of the bottom is flatter than that. You can do perfect work with a plane like that, but one where the heel and toe are below the mouth, you cannot.

    If you do the method I suggest above with spot removal and then final light lapping, you can get as flat as any marketed plane spec in a relatively short period of time. But you need a flat reference, and a decent single cut file that has teeth all the way to the end and a little bit of flexibility.

    If you don't want to file, you can spot sand with very coarse grade of paper on a small wooden block (perhaps 2x3 inches).

    I promised someone else a while ago that I would make a video of this - the filing becomes important on infill planes because the mild steel laps very slowly, but files easily. I have an infill plane that will be getting this treatment within a couple of weeks and will try to make a video of it.

    All that said, the planes that I use day to day generally have a slightly higher toe and heel, but I will never work with a plane that has a toe and heel lower than the mouth of the plane. Even if it's just two or three thousandths (you can feel less than that), it will always clip the ends off of a board before planing the whole surface, and that's really annoying. I had a LN 8 that was right at spec ( 1 1/2 thousandths hollow along its length ) and with fine shavings, it would do the same thing on a flat surface unless you really pressed down on it. Rather than lap it (which would lower the value), I just sold it instead. I didn't really feel like I had a leg to stand on with LN (and didn't call them), because it was at their spec - they did their job and delivered what they said they would.

  11. #25
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    poland
    Age
    38
    Posts
    20

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    If you don't want to file, you can spot sand with very coarse grade of paper on a small wooden block (perhaps 2x3 inches).
    that is basically how i made my wooden jointer straight 2 years ago

  12. #26
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Dandenong Ranges
    Posts
    266

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    I bought a Stanley Handyman. Frog doesn't sit right in mine either.

  13. #27
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    Feb 2018
    Location
    poland
    Age
    38
    Posts
    20

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    With my handyman it looked something like this:
    First I measured the problem and added 0.1mm to it.

    I know this drawing is absolutely horrible.
    Then I put the plane between two straight pine beams, and milled the casting with plunge router and normal woodcuting bit with a top bearing to fit the frog.



    It was scarry as hell and i don't know if i ever would do this again. Router was spinning the slowest it could. I was taking small layers at a time, holding router with all my might. Because if it would bind, it would jump to the side like small monster. Constant pressure from the top and side to side is the key here, since I don't own milling machine.

    Be aware! If you cut too deep your depth adjustment will not work without shortening of the cap iron. Blade would not fully retract otherwise.

  14. #28
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Helensburgh
    Posts
    7,696

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    This guy uses segmented laps. Yes I know it is overboard for woodworking so let's get that one out of the way but he brings up some really good points about lapping when you ignore the superfluous information on absolute precision. It think from memory he does two videos on lapping.
    CHRIS

  15. #29
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Brisbane (western suburbs)
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    77
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    12,094

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Parks View Post
    ....This guy uses segmented laps. .......
    ? Did you forget to put in the link, Chris?

    Cheers,
    IW

  16. #30
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Brisbane (western suburbs)
    Age
    77
    Posts
    12,094

    Default

    Kokodin, you're a man after my own heart - you don't let insurmountable difficulties stop you having a go, do you?! But I cringe at taking a router to cast iron. I think you should put the "don't try this at home" waiver on that post. The leverage & side-thrust on the bit at the lower setting must have been pretty scary, even with the minutest of cuts.

    But necessity is the mother of invention - I admire your persistence and courage..

    Cheers,
    IW

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