Thread: Ever Wanted a Froe Away Line?

Paul excellent write up again [emoji106][emoji106].
May we have a pic of the laser guides?
As I have concluded that is what the random batteries laying about are for.
It's great to see old technology mixed in with new.

Cheers Matt .


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looking good

can I suggest that the sockets be slightly tapered - sort of like a pick socket - bigger diameter at the bottom than the top. The bottom being the knife edge.

Originally Posted by Simplicity

Paul excellent write up again [emoji106][emoji106].
May we have a pic of the laser guides?
As I have concluded that is what the random batteries laying about are for.
It's great to see old technology mixed in with new.

Cheers Matt .




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Matt

I had a quick clear up of the work bench, but missed the batteries. The 9V flat battery is for my moisture meter, which actually uses four of the little devils. The AA batteries were to go into a useless torch for SWMBO. No laser technology here yet.

Regards
Paul

Nick

I am planning on something along those lines of tapering.

Regards
Paul

Originally Posted by Bushmiller

Matt

I had a quick clear up of the work bench, but missed the batteries. The 9V flat battery is for my moisture meter, which actually uses four of the little devils. The AA batteries were to go into a useless torch for SWMBO. No laser technology here yet.

Regards
Paul

God grieve man
How to you survive with out laser guided saws and froes

I just don't understand

Cheers Matt

A little bit more progress made in that the four blades have been cleaned up:

P1000810.jpgP1000811.jpg

The sockets are being made from two pieces of pipe. The smaller length, which will be on the bottom, has an internal diameter about 1mm larger so that there will be room for the timber wedge to expand the handle and resist being pulled though. I was going to weld these using GP rods for mild steel, but when I was cutting them up I noticed that the sparks were very different and also the small piece of pipe is seamless. In addition it had also been welded length ways with an almost perfect weld. Although this pipe was retrieved from a scrap bin, it is highly likely that it is boiler tubing of some description so I will have to use appropriate material to weld. At least it is not stainless, which might have created additional problems for welding to the blade where I will use Low Hydrogen rods.

Incidentally I did note in one of the earlier posts a reference to somebody who maintained that welded sockets always fell off. That won't happen providing the correct rods and welding technique is used. If you use General Purpose rods on high carbon steel the weld will fail the first time it is stressed: Probably when the froe is used as a lever, which it is intended to be, as well as a slitting and trimming device.

P1000807.jpg

This is a better look at the preparation profile for the weld.

P1000808.jpg

Regards
Paul

Collars ready for attaching to the blade:

Regards
Paul

Originally Posted by Simplicity

But I did see this pic on Facebook today and we'll one bored moment led to another bored

Bored? What's bored?

Nice froe project Paul. If you can find some 321 (309 mebee? I'll check) stainless rods will work for your socket to blade join. It apparently works for joining dissimilar iron base alloys. Would be better to use something like Certanium 707, Hastelloy W or Super Missileweld (Harris) if you can.

Rob

I have some stainless steel rods, but I think they are for 316. I will stick to the low hydrogen rods for now as I know they are intended for high carbon steel. I might get to some welding later today.

Regards
Paul

309 or 321 will likely work depending on the composition of your blade. 310 or 312 would reportedly be better. 316 may crack.

OK Paul & Rob, you've saved me from making a basic mistake, I probably would've just used the "general-purpose" (so it says on the packet!) rods to join a mild-steel tube socket to the spring-steel blade. I stick everything else around the place together with 'em, & not much has come apart, but it could have something to do with the sheer quantity of metal that gets applied. I inherited the 'mud-dauber wasp' method of welding from my old pot. So, you're telling me I should at least go & get some low-H2 rods, it seems? To get the required taper in the socket, I thought I'd just cut a narrow "V" out of the tube & squeeze it back together.

That seemed like a quick & easy solution, but I've been thinking that Paul's belled sockets might offer a big improvement. Because you will be inserting the handle from the 'top', you can turn the end of your handle with a distinct shoulder on the upper side, then when you flare the other end out with a wedge or two, you will have that handle very firmly locked in place. Dunno about you, but I've swung enough mattocks enough times to have encountered the problem of the head coming loose and sliding down the handle when you lift it for the next big strike. If you're watching where you want to hit & don't see it coming, it means a smack on the upper hand, and a few choice expletives.

You're not likely to suffer any injuries if your froe handle comes loose, but it would still be annoying. So better get your patent application in for "The Bushmiller's patent locking handle design", quick!

Cheers,

Cheers,

OK. The sockets have been welded to the blades:

P1000820.jpgP1000822.jpgP1000821.jpg

Low Hydrogen rods while being necessary for high carbon steel are not without some difficulties, at least for the hobby welder. Firstly they require a higher voltage than normal GP rods. They need an OCV of 67.5V so unless your welder has dual voltage (45V and 70V) you will not be able to use them. They are really sticky in their use and don't respond well to being stopped half way through the weld.

They need to be hot. Professionals keep them in a warming oven. In the past I have heated them in an old electric fry pan, but I have mislaid it (I can't imagine SWMBO has reclaimed it) so I had to use the kitchen oven to keep them warm. This meant I had to traipse back and forward to get a rod each time I needed a new one as they cool down rapidly.

The work piece too needs to be warm. In fact as the metal is heated you can see the moisture evaporating as the heat front travels along the steel. I just use a gas bottle and nozzle for this. It is a lot of fussing, but there is no alternative if the weld is to be sound. The side benefit of heating the rods and steel is that they do flow better. Lastly the slag is much more reluctant to chip off than on a GP rod.

The next step is for some heat treating to harden and temper, but that will have to wait until next weekend.

Regards
Paul

Originally Posted by IanW

OK Paul & Rob, you've saved me from making a basic mistake, I probably would've just used the "general-purpose" (so it says on the packet!) rods to join a mild-steel tube socket to the spring-steel blade. I stick everything else around the place together with 'em, & not much has come apart, but it could have something to do with the sheer quantity of metal that gets applied. I inherited the 'mud-dauber wasp' method of welding from my old pot. So, you're telling me I should at least go & get some low-H2 rods, it seems? To get the required taper in the socket, I thought I'd just cut a narrow "V" out of the tube & squeeze it back together.

That seemed like a quick & easy solution, but I've been thinking that Paul's belled sockets might offer a big improvement. Because you will be inserting the handle from the 'top', you can turn the end of your handle with a distinct shoulder on the upper side, then when you flare the other end out with a wedge or two, you will have that handle very firmly locked in place. Dunno about you, but I've swung enough mattocks enough times to have encountered the problem of the head coming loose and sliding down the handle when you lift it for the next big strike. If you're watching where you want to hit & don't see it coming, it means a smack on the upper hand, and a few choice expletives.

You're not likely to suffer any injuries if your froe handle comes loose, but it would still be annoying. So better get your patent application in for "The Bushmiller's patent locking handle design", quick!

Cheers,

Cheers,

Ian

We were pretty much posting at the same time, but I may have already raised some issues for you in that you will need a stick welder that has a 70V setting. I will be doing exactly as you have outlined for the handle so that it is trapped in the collar. Hopefully it will work out as planned. I will probably only make up one handle, being for myself. If you have a mig welder that may come with a high carbon wire.

One other froe is already spoken for and that person wishes to make his own handle ( and save some postage cost at the same time). I will make handles if required for the other two. Any hardwood will be ample for this purpose as they only have to be strong. The froe handle is not struck.

Regards
Paul

Bushy

your PM area is full

and what's the internal diameter of the sockets?


Ian
when I showed my last handle to a woodturning group I got lambasted for having the handle enter from the top
Researching I found reputable manufacturers doing it both ways.

I'm thinking that having the handle enter from the bottom it would be self tightening every time you bash the blade.

I wonder whether a dowel through the socket and handle a la drawbore might work?