Thread: Hand planes affected by heat from a house fire.

I don't know enough about metals to comment on whether or not its a viable option to restore these, unfortunately. I'm interested to hear what others have to say.

I can, however, highly recommend Hock Tools plane irons. I would get mine from them, and I've actually replaced several plane irons with theirs. Another option is The Tool Exchange which is based near Brisbane for an original Stanley or otherwise vintage iron. If it's not on his site, it may be worth emailing him. I've had mixed results with that. He's not a big email guy. Also, the quality of plane irons seems to vary wildly over the years, so buyer beware. I'm also pretty sure both Lee Valley/Veritas and Lie Nielsen make plane irons, and those would be quality. Of course there's always eBay.

I'm not sure where to get the wooden parts. It's my understanding that the size and spacing of the holes varied a bit over the years, so it seems like buying something premade may be risky, but, again, i'm not sure. I, personally, have always made my replacements. Lee Valley have templates on their website. I've made them by just tracing and eyeballing an existing tote, but I used one of these templates last time and it came out perfectly. Given your current situation, however, I can understand why making your own may be difficult.

Either way, good luck.

Cheers,
Luke

Thanks for the reply Luke. I really don't know why I bothered to keep the planes, probably because I wanted to hang onto something of a past life. I don't really know if I will ever use them again, I may just clean them up and hang them on a wall somewhere but it's interesting to know if they can be restored.

If the cast iron bodies haven't moved (twisted) then they should be fine to restore. If the fire has damaged the cast-iron the damage will be visible. You can make new handles (you're a woodworker?). Chances are the cutting irons lost their temper and are ruined. If so they will need to be replaced with new or second-hand irons, but the cap irons should still be okay. You'll have to assess how much of the brass you can reuse. Maybe you can save one or two planes, and retire the others.

Good luck.

Cheers, Vann.

Originally Posted by Old Hilly

There may have been some distortion due to heat but that's really only a matter of surface-grinding the sole on something flat but will the steel/iron have softened? Is this "restoration" a waste of time? Where do I find new Irons and handles?

Id like to see them restored . Even if its just so you say "Bugger the bush fire !"

Im no expert at the metal side of things but an an interested enthusiast , Hobby Blacksmith sort of thing .

One thing I learned was when things are cast in iron , extra thickness must be left on the spot where material will be later machined off . But because of the temperature of the molten metal going into the sand mould, it causes it to contract and go hard at its surface . The bit to be machined later has to be thicker so the machining is going deeper than the hard surface. Through the hard and into the soft . Otherwise its too hard on the cutter I think ? not sure .

Did they leave extra just for machining Stanley planes though ?

Depending on how the hot planes cooled may have something to do with their condition . If they cooled slowly in a bed of ashes then they may be softer than when new and relaxed . and that may be fine. If they were blasted with cold water while red hot they may be very hard like glass and brittle . That may still be OK for use?

The only problem for you could be if they have cracked.

I good way of judging condition could be to LIGHTLY tap with a small hammer and listen to the sound . And also do this to a plane in good condition to compare and see if you can learn something. You will hear a difference if there are cracks probably . It will have no ring and sound flat you could even hear something lose like a vibrating sound.

Another test is to file a part and feel how the file grabs the metal . Cast is usually soft . I don't know if it goes rock hard when heated and quenched in cold water . It should going by what I read with the sand thing above. But test and see.

If they seem OK condition Id sand them up including the sole . Just with a block of wood and sand paper with some oil thinned with turps for lube.

Re make the replacement handles from something nice like some dark Blackwood , a good replacement for Rosewood. And add new blades . I think replacements can be had from Bunnings . I got some years back from there. Or go with some fancy ones like mentioned above .

And don't forget to show us pictures from start to finish

Rob

Physically the planes look fine, apart from having a burned look about them. I made a guess at them being cast iron but I spent long hours helping a neighbor who was a welding expert and learned from him that there was cast iron in many forms and compositions. Theoretically there will be some slight distortion and no reduction in strength. The metal was heated to probably less than red-hot and allowed to cool naturally in still air (they were in a filing cabinet drawer) so there should be no cracking due to cooling stress. In theory the plane Irons could be re-tempered but I would need some expert advice on doing this. The type of steel used is the key to getting things right here. In practice I should just buy new ones, but from where? Same with the handles. Buy from e-bay or locally? Are there any restoration people out there?

Originally Posted by Old Hilly

Physically the planes look fine, apart from having a burned look about them. I made a guess at them being cast iron but I spent long hours helping a neighbor who was a welding expert and learned from him that there was cast iron in many forms and compositions...

There are very few steel planes. I think it was VB in USA made dropped forged steel plane bodies, and I've read that the Chinese Quangsheng/Woodriver planes are steel (but I don't know for sure). Anyways, Stanley used a reasonable quality grey-iron. I don't know anything about what type of cast-iron Falcon-Pope used.

Originally Posted by Old Hilly

...In theory the plane Irons could be re-tempered but I would need some expert advice on doing this. The type of steel used is the key to getting things right here...

Some guys re-temper irons at home. I've heard of people doing this to chisels etc that are too soft. Not something I'd feel comfortable with - but that's just my personal feeling.

Originally Posted by Old Hilly

...In practice I should just buy new ones, but from where? Same with the handles. Buy from e-bay or locally? Are there any restoration people out there?

For plane irons:
Lee Valley: Stanley/Record Plane Blades made by Veritas® - Lee Valley Tools
Hock: Bench Plane Blades and Breakers
Quangsheng: https://www.workshopheaven.com/hand-...cessories.html
Ray Isles: https://www.oldtoolstore.co.uk/repla...irons-15-c.asp
Clifton: Clifton Cryogenic Bench Plane Blade - Made by Thomas Flinn & Co., Sheffield England
there'll be others too. The Quangsheng irons are said to be very good - trouble with them and the Clifton is that a 3mm thick they start to cause problems with adjusters, mouth opening, etc. Better to stick with thinner irons (~2.6mm max.) IMHO. Or as Auscab suggested, you can usually pick up some mediocre quality modern Stanley irons at your local big shed.

There are commercial handles made, but these seem to come and go.

HTH.

Cheers, Vann.

Can't help you with the possible warping of the plane body apart from using a straight edge or a quick play with a sheet of say 400 grit on a piece of glass to see if there are any major high / low spots.

Jim Davey who is a plane restorer sells parts for planes - Jim Davey - Woodworking Hand Tools - eShop - Sales - Planes - Replacement Screws and Handles

Might be worth checking with Jim for advice and parts. jim is located around Nowra.

Hope this is is of some assistance.

Alan...

Thanks to you both Van and UncleAl, I will give Jim Davey a call at some stage, simply because he is in Australia and shipping costs will be a little lower. My local big green shed isn't all that big, more a "4 car garage" compared to an "aircraft hanger" and woodworking tools seem to revolve around things coloured green/yellow, rusty red, blue or orange-red and all tend to be power operated in some way. If there was a cordless hammer available from Ozito, they would have one! As for hand tools, I have not seen a hand plane in Port Macquarie since they opened over 10 years ago. Flat-pack kitchens and Laminate floors take up a lot of shelf space, I guess that's what sells these days.

Another useful source is The Tool Exchange. He often has bulk lots of plane blades in random sizes and manufacturers on E-bay as well as new Stanley blades. He is likely the only person who'd hold any old Falcon Pope blades.

Thanks Chief, lots of goodies there, I will get back to the container when the mud dries so I can confirm the sizes of the planes I have. I could never work out how the Stanley numbering system worked.

Uncle Al has you on the right track. There's nothing Jim Davey doesn't know about planes, particularly Stanley's. He's heavily involved with TTTG (does all their tutelage on planes and chisels) and if he can't supply what you want he'll know who can. He's also the Australian agent for Woodriver and IBC plane blades amongst other things.

Thanks Al, when the rain stops and the mud dries I will get back to the container on the old house site and take note of the plane model numbers. Those numbers always confused me. I know they make sense to someone but not me! There is a Stanley plane for sale elsewhere on the forum, I need to do an internet search to work out what it is though!