Thread: Hand planes, time to bite the bullet.

Iv'e just recently got into hand planes over the last 18 months. I have found that with sharpening there are SO many different methods and techniques, you just got to find one that works for you. I have David Charlesworths DVD on sharpening and follow that along with Rob Cosmans technique and it seems to work.

My first bench plane was a Veritas low angle jack plane and I found it to be quite versatile. I have read excellent reviews on the new woodriver range and i'm sure you can't go wrong with them.

Good luck
Andy

I reckon this would do well for a starter kit. I just got the 1200 and 6000 stones as well as the MkII honing jig and now have my chisels from blunt too sharp in an afternoon... or two(they were really bad). I also used a piece of glass and some 80 grit wet and dry to get the correct angle on them. I used the same piece of glass with some 240 W/D paper to keep the stone nice and flat.

Japanese Waterstone - 300 grit : CARBA-TEC

Japanese Waterstone - 1200 grit : CARBA-TEC

Japanese Waterstone - 6000 grit : CARBA-TEC

Veritas® MKII Honing Guide : CARBA-TEC

Thanks so much guys, that just the sort of info i was after.

If the planes are from Jim then they will be ready to go out of the box.
I haven't seen a Woodriver plane - only a Quangsheng.
I have no idea if these are the same planes re-badged, but the plane I saw was very well made. One thing that puzzled me was that it was based on the Stanley Bedrock design and had all of those features bar one.
That was that the frog and machined base in the body of the plane, didn't have the machined ways and frog keyed to the ways that the Bedrock has.
Seemed strange to me.
I think that this is an important feature of the design - and it would be interesting to see if the Woodriver has it.
A quick question to Jim would resolve it.
Cheers
SG

G'day Ratty

You could do worse than to read this thread on diamond lapping film. Looks really cheap and highly effective.

Cheers, FF

I recently purchaed some 3M lapping film from these guys - Scary Sharpening . I would have got them locally but the sandpaper man doesn't have the course sheets.

I went out and got 7 glass plates (200x100x10mm) and stuck the sheets to them. I plan to use them for rehabbing chisels (lapping) and experimenting with sharpening on them. All up the sheets cost $25 delivered from the UK in a week. They had a special so it might be a little bit more now, but still very cheap!
I also have shapton stones for my new irons and find them excellent. As for flattening the stones, I went out and bought a DMT course diamond plate, but the thing was NOT flat so I started using wet and dry stuck down to glass. It's a cheap alternative that works, however i'm going to invest in a DMT lapping plate very soon. It should last me many years.

Andy

I have not used a wood river but have been told they are made by quengshang and I have a block plane by them. It works really well. That set should do most of your general planeing.
As for sharpening, well there are so many options you just have to find something that works for you. I have stuck with the 2 sided oilstone I got back about 1975. I have a seppach wet grinder but only use that for serious metal removal as in rehabbing old tools and some turning tools.
Regards
John

Those diamond lapping sheets look quite interesting but this is where things get confusing for me with so many options & opinions. Thats why i've decided to stay with the stones.
Scribbly, sadly i don't even know what you are talking about with regards to the issue with the frog!
I have a sort of idea what you mean but with no experience with hand planes i can't picture the relevance/ importance. In regards to the Quangsheng brand, from a bit of research on the subject of the woodriver planes my understanding is that the woodriver brand are 'similar' to the Quangsheng but made to better specifications & quality & with a few small differences, enough to make the woodriver over all a better quality plane.

Have a look on youtube, They have a few videos on sharpening planes and chisels. Also have a look in your local library not much help to you sorry, but in my local library they have a great book on hand planes and sharpening. Hope this helps ?

OK, I have just watched the utube video of Rob Cosman with the V3 version of Woodriver.
The frog and plane base are completely flat without the machined ways.
Here is a piccie of the frog and plane base:

Ratty, this is my shopping list, subject to debate from anyone and some answers from Schtoo. I have come to these conclusions after significant input from rsser (thanks Ern). I was kinda hoping that a set of 5 diamond plates would do the job, but have gone away from that because of flatness concerns, plus the plates are nowhere near big enough for plane soles (esp a #6 or #7 jointer). Ern recommends 400x400mm for a glass/granite sheet with a tough plastic cover on top, sheet of MDF underneath . Actually, I reckon skip the MDF and put a non-slip rubber sheet under the glass, because you'd need that under the MDF anyway.

Already on hand:
Tormek T7 (second hand, and from an impeccable heritage)

Processess to be covered:
Bench Chisels (rebevel, flatten & sharpen)
Plane soles (flatten)
Plane blades (sharpen)
Colt MaxiCuts (sharpen)
Kitchen knives (sharpen)
as well as other sundry items such as Marking Knives, scalpels etc (and these won't have anything specific purchased for them).

The T7 primarily serves as a bevel setter, regrinder, garden tool sharpener. Some use in flattening backs.

For flattening plane soles and chisels:
Piece of float glass (or granite sheet in my case) with SiC grits #90-600 $24.50 from Lee Valley + glass/granite ($50-70??)

For flattening stones:
Atoma #400 Economy Diamond plate (no base) $87.66 Tools From Japan

For sharpening:
Sigma Power Select II #1000 $58.42
Sigma Power Select II #3000 $63.74
Sigma Power Select II #6000 $82.35
Base for Stones with centre support $26.52 all from TFJ
Set of Diamond Lapping Sheets $22.50 from LV
Veritas Mk II honing jig & Camber roller $88.40 from LV

Total $454.09 + freight

NOTES:
1. I'm thinking that I don't need a #140 Diamond plate as the Sigma PS II stones are not supposed to dish much. If nec, add a #140 later. If it was just for flattening stones I'd go #140, but it will no doubt get used for steel as well and I wouldn't want to jump 140-1000.

2. Sigma Power Select II stones selected because they'll do all steels including HSS M2, and I don't want to have to acquire a different set of stones for a particular steel type.

3. I may acquire the 10000 stone later if I really think I'd like it. In fact I'm only getting the 6000 because of kitchen knives, so that could be deleted for a workshop I reckon (esp with the Diamond film on hand).

4. There is a holder available with Stainless rails, but it's double the price at $53.10. I have to wonder how much use the S/S is. Do I really care about a bit of surface rust on the rails? I doubt it. I may consider a second holder so that I can have the 1k and 3k stones both "at the ready".

5. The Diamond Lapping film is primarily for sticking onto some shop-made paddles for sharpening the Maxicuts. I can cut a 20mm strip off the side for that, and then still have enough width left for blade touch ups without having to go to the stones.


I haven't arrived at a shopping list of planes yet (I'm where you are). Currently I have a hideous third millenium Stanley #5 with huge backlash (to the point where the plane is pretty useless actually). The list might end up looking like:

• An LA BU block plane (Veritas NX60 or LN Bronze)
• HNT Gordon Smoother (coz I just gotta have one of his)
• Veritas LA BU Jack with 2-3 blades (one heavily cambered for scrubbing, one higher angle bevel for Aussie woods, and a normal one for softwoods)
• A #6 or #7 for jointing. Veritas or LN?? I'm hearing QC concerns about LN, and given that they are significantly more $$, perhaps Veritas. Then again Veritas stop at #6, and a #7 is four inches longer, so it may well be an LN.

With the various spare blades, screwdriver, fence (for edges) that's about $1700 plus freight. That'll do to see if the plane bug bites, and should cover a fair few operations.



Cheers, FF

Nice shopping list FF, more than i'm really wanting to spend on sharpening at this stage tho. Cody's list stones sounds more like what would suit me tho.
I've oggled over the Veritas, HNT & LN planes for ages but the price is a bit of a push. If i knew more about planes i could probably talk myself into digging deeper in the wallet. These seem a good middle road.
Thanks for the pic Scribbly, i think i see what you mean, what is the issue that you are pointing out? I just watched the utube again & it seamed like a good thing that theres a lot of flat surface between the frog & plane base??

Originally Posted by Rattrap

Thanks for the pic Scribbly, i think i see what you mean, what is the issue that you are pointing out? I just watched the utube again & it seamed like a good thing that theres a lot of flat surface between the frog & plane base??

The beauty of the Bedrock design - with the edges of the frog seating precisely in the machined ways in the base was so that the frog can only move forward or back, and has no sideways movement. Sideways movement may skew the frog instead of it moving precisely forward and back. This often happens on some other Stanley Bailey designs.
Now it may be that the Woodriver frog sits tight in the bed with no sideways movement - but it doesn't appear to have the same design as the original Bedrock planes.
It would be worth clarifying with Jim Davey if the Woodriver design has this feature or not.
Cheers
SG

Thanks Scribbly, i can understand what you mean now. Is the issue with the frog skewing difficult to allow for, as in, is it easy to correct if you know it may be a problem?