Thread: Which hand saws to buy first?

I have another question for the saw makers out there, are there any native timbers that would make good handles? I honestly don't know what specific qualities are required of the timber, but I can't see any good reason not to use any decent hardwood that's not too prone to splitting.

I have a decent sized board of what I believe to be Iroko about 1" thick. This also seems like a good candidate to me, what do you reckon?

Originally Posted by kman-oz

I have another question for the saw makers out there, are there any native timbers that would make good handles? I honestly don't know what specific qualities are required of the timber, but I can't see any good reason not to use any decent hardwood that's not too prone to splitting.

I have a decent sized board of what I believe to be Iroko about 1" thick. This also seems like a good candidate to me, what do you reckon?

kman, how big a list would you like?

In my view, the perfect saw handle wood is reasonably dense & strong, has a fine grain that gives the wood a good 'feel' and is easily worked. Our myrtle beeches would fit most of those criteria, Qld Walnut is good (pic 1), Qld Maple ditto (bit coarse-grained, but does give a fine surface if you work at it. Scented Rosewood , & Coachwood should be good if you can get them. Some truly nice woods like Mulga & she-oak are up with the best, though a little harder to work. Other 'minor' woods I've tried are Lancewood (pic 2), Western Myall, and some WA "rock-oak", which another forumite gave me (pic 3). It is superb, with a fine fiddleback figure, and much easier to work than the eastern rose she-oak.

That's just a starter - there must be dozens of suitable woods - river red-gum springs to mind. I'm sure others will chip in with their ideas of what's good...

Cheers,

You've got in one kman. Just about any Oz hardwood will do and do well. You've seen photos of all the handles posted on the forum over the past few years. Ian, that lancewood handle is my favourite of all the handles that I have seen you post. Great form and lovely timber.
All the best
kevin

Originally Posted by kevjed

You've got in one kman. Just about any Oz hardwood will do and do well. You've seen photos of all the handles posted on the forum over the past few years. Ian, that lancewood handle is my favourite of all the handles that I have seen you post. Great form and lovely timber.
All the best
kevin

Thanks Kevin, but it has a small fault. I discovered on that handle how important it is to keep dimensions within tight limits. Somehow I got the stock a bit thin - about 21mm, & that made the grip feel a bit small. Everything else went ok, & it's fine for small hands, & the wood looks good!

While "just about any" hardwood will do, there are quite a few I would avoid - look for ones that will finish to a relatively fine finish, if you want it to feel good in your hand. There is a world of difference - e.g. red gum will usually give a fine surface with a bit of work, but I think you could work on spotted gum til hell freezes over & it would still feel rough....

Cheers,

Hi All
I have been following this thread with interest as I am also looking at getting a decent set of saws to add to the secondhand gents saw and secondhand tenon saw I currently use. I found this article and thought you may be interested
Popular Woodworking - Understanding Western Backsaws

Cheers
Rodney

Interesting read, thanks Rodney. I think Chris has further reinforced my choices, which is always good.

Regarding coarse grained timbers for handles, as far as you guys are concerned the only reason not to use them is the feel? If that's the case I will still strongly consider them because I'm now very confident grain filling with Shellac after building my nieces cot from Messmate. This will open a great many options from my stock pile without the need to go hunting for something really special.

Originally Posted by kman-oz

Interesting read, thanks Rodney. I think Chris has further reinforced my choices, which is always good.

Regarding coarse grained timbers for handles, as far as you guys are concerned the only reason not to use them is the feel? If that's the case I will still strongly consider them because I'm now very confident grain filling with Shellac after building my nieces cot from Messmate. This will open a great many options from my stock pile without the need to go hunting for something really special.

kman - yes, my objections are just aesthetic, almost anything short of Balsa can make a usable handle. Coarse-grain is not necessarily bad - some woods like Qld Maple could be described as "coarse grained", yet finish very nicely. I was also trying to steer you towards woods that are easier to work with. There's a fair bit of work in crafting a nicely-shaped handle, so if you start with a wood that's easy to shape & sand/scrape, it's a bit more rewarding than tigering away on a chunk of Spotty gum or the likes. However, wood varies enormously, and some pieces of species you would normally expect to be horrible can be excellent material. In any case, it doesn't hurt to do a handle or two with whatever you have on hand when starting out - I replaced a couple of my early efforts twice along the way, as I got better at turning lumps of wood into things that really look like saw handles.

It still takes me about a half day to complete & fit a handle (I've posted my method somewhere on the forum). Cutting out the shape, letting-in the spine & blade, drilling the bolt holes & recesses, and rough-shaping with rasps takes less than an hour. The detailing & finishing is what takes me to lunchtime... It's very satisfying, though - all handwork, so I can listen to the radio or the birds all through...
Cheers,

Awesome! I have quite a few scraps of nice looking hardwood laying around. I still have some Rimu which might be *just* big enough for a small handle.

I've ordered my bits from Wenzloff & Sons this morning, so in a few weeks I might be able to make a start on them. I guess that means I have a few weeks to sort out the handle materials.

After reading Chris' article I've decided to go with a 16" Tenon saw. I'm not a big bloke, and if Chris' testimony is anything to go by that won't matter, but I do relish the idea that I will have the option of a very long saw stroke for those big jobs. After my breif experience with Kev's saws I can see myself using that extra bit of blade when I need it.

Wow, while I'm typing this Mike has already responded to my question! Maybe it'll be less that a few weeks... Better get cracking on the handles then.

Mike's pretty quick to reply when the timing allows. So pleased you are going to make a saw, I bet it won't be your last.
All the best
Kevin

It's only been four months since I started this little deviation into saw making and I've got the saw plate, brass, bolts, drills and handle materials... but no other progress. I did mange to get hold of a bit of Walnut for some handles which has been acclimatising for a few months. It was cheap because it has quite a bit of sap wood, so I'll be using those bits for my first attempts and keeping the nice heartwood bits for later attempts.

Before I make a start, should I be drilling the saw plate first and using this as a template, or drilling the handle blank first? I've found various tutorials that use both methods, but really don't have a feel for which will work better.

Originally Posted by kman-oz

......
Before I make a start, should I be drilling the saw plate first and using this as a template, or drilling the handle blank first? I've found various tutorials that use both methods, but really don't have a feel for which will work better.

kman - I drill the handle first, for two reasons:
a) It's easier to locate the bolt holes on the cheeks so they look right, & are not too close to an edge or piercing the spine.
b) Once the handle holes are drilled & saw & spine are fitted in the handle, it's very easy to accruately mark the centres of the bolt holes, by using a twist drill chucked in the battery drill - just a quick spin will mark the centres nicely.

I do my handles in the following sequence:

1. Cut out & roughly smooth handle to template lines, making sure edges are all square.
2. Mark out the centre line for the blade slot, & cut it. (Do this very carefully & accurately, because if the cut is not straight & square, when you tighten the nuts up later, it will put a curve in the back of the blade - DAMHIK!).
3. Now put the spine on the blade blank & pop it in the slot, so that you can accurately transfer the lines for the cut-out for the spine. Once marked, saw & chisel the spine slot. Again, do this carefuly & slowly, ensuring a good clean fit.
4. Once the the blade & spine are in place & sitting nicely where you want them, figure out the best placing for the bolts. I do these by setting up the handle & clamping in the right spot, then drilling the countersink for the heads. Then switch to the bolt sized drill without disturbing the handle, to keep the holes concentric, & drill the bolt hole right through (make sure the handle is sitting firmly on a backing piece to prevent excessive splitting out as the drill exits). To make the nut countersink concentric on the opposite side, use the bolt drill to get the handle in the right spot, then clamp firmly - switch to the size drill for the nut, & drill. I find my Forstner bits invaluable for the head & nut countersinks.

Once the blade is properly fitted in the handle, I then mark out contour lines & proceed to shape it. Fitting the blade, spine, & bolts is the really critical part, but doesn't take long to do, & if you screw it up at this stage, the loss isn't so bad. Shaping & finishing takes me a lot longer, so I would hate to wreck a handle that had had so much work put into it during the slotting & drilling steps, which unfortunately, does occasionally happen!
Cheers,

Your method is different again Ian, though I do like the idea of drilling the handle and plate holes in the same stroke. If you drop in the bolts as you go it's far harder to get it wrong this way.

One of the methods used a small drill to locate the holes on both sides of the handle. I think I'll do this first and counter sink with a forstner bit, then cut the slot and spine and drill the plate.

Thanks Ian, You've been a great help.

Originally Posted by kman-oz

Your method is different again Ian, though I do like the idea of drilling the handle and plate holes in the same stroke. If you drop in the bolts as you go it's far harder to get it wrong this way.

One of the methods used a small drill to locate the holes on both sides of the handle. I think I'll do this first and counter sink with a forstner bit, then cut the slot and spine and drill the plate.

Thanks Ian, You've been a great help.

kman - I may have mislead you a bit. I don't have the sawplate in the handle when drilling the bolt-holes through the handle. I put the blade in & figure out the best placing of the bolts, then remove the metal while drilling the wood. After the handle holes are done, I replace the plate & mark out the hole positions on the saw plate, then drill it separately. My reason for this is that I prefer to use those blue carbide-tipped 'builders' drills for the saw plate. They are the best things I've found for drilling a clean hole in spring steel - no other drills stand up to it for more than a hole or two. I also discovered, after wrecking a couple of the carbide-tipped drills, that you don't use lubricant with them - they work much better dry, at least on thin plate - haven't tried punching them through anything thicker.

This is simply the way I've evolved making saws - as long as you take appropriate care, it can be done in any order, I'm sure. It's the end-product that matters most!

Cheers,