Thread: Which hand saws to buy first?

Originally Posted by IanW

Now all you have to do is resist going on to make more than the saws you really need!

No hope. I'm sure the bug has bitten.
Well done.

Originally Posted by kman-oz

.....I have 11tpi on the rip and 13tpi on the cross cut. Rake angle is 15 degrees in both and I think it was 15 degrees of fleam too.

OK, kman - I think you will find 11 tpi will be a good choice for that size saw - it should handle a reasonably wide cut without clogging. I have one a little bit shorter that I put 10 tpi on, and I like it a lot. (I don't think the difference between 10 & 11 would be detectable.)

I'm interested in the choice of rake angle. He's used a much more relaxed angle than genearally advocated, and a little less fleam on the crosscut. I've tried fleam angles between 10 & 20 degrees, looking for a compromise between ripping & crosscutting in the one saw, but you have to vary fleam quite a bit on a given saw before you can really tell it's different. So I've gone back to straight rips (no fleam) and straight crosscuts, with around 20 degrees of fleam. I've been easing off on rake angles for ripsaws, too, after starting out with 5 degrees, which was what I read was 'normal'. The higher angles are fine on softer woods, but can be very rough & bitey on hard stuff, so your saw should be a very smooth cutter.

Now you have to keep it cutting that way....

Cheers,

Thanks Kev.

Ian, to be honest I really didn't have a view on what any of these settings would mean to me in a practical sense. I simply told Mr. Wenzloff what I'd be doing with them and in what materials and let him decide. The fleam angle doesn't seem all that relevant considering the thickness of the plate. At 20 thou I suspect you could straight cut it and not have any problems. Time will tell when I have to learn how to sharpen them properly.

Originally Posted by kman-oz

...Ian, to be honest I really didn't have a view on what any of these settings would mean to me in a practical sense. I simply told Mr. Wenzloff what I'd be doing with them and in what materials and let him decide. The fleam angle doesn't seem all that relevant considering the thickness of the plate. At 20 thou I suspect you could straight cut it and not have any problems. Time will tell when I have to learn how to sharpen them properly.

It's ok kman - I must have been using saws for 40 plus years, before I started to think seriously about tooth profiles & what they really do! And I've got a long ways to go - figuring out saw teeth makes plane blade geometry seem like a trivial exercise.

You are sort of correct when you say small teeth in thin plate will cut regardless of whether they have fleam or not, however, there IS a difference, but how much difference can depend on who's using the saw & in what sort of material. I've tried saws with & without fleam on various sized teeth & plate, and there's no doubt in my mind that the sharp point contributes to a better job of cross-cutting. The cut is smoother, easier & there is less tear-out on the exit side. But how much fleam you 'need' is something I haven't figured out. I use 20 degrees because that's what the article I used as my initial guide said to use. So one of these days I must sharpen up some otherwise identical saws with different amounts of fleam & put them through some serious cutting trials.

Speed of cut is debatable - under some conditions either tooth pattern will advance just as far per stroke. One problem with comparing a rip saw & a crosscut is the difference in rake & also set - I don't know about others, but I use a little less set on a ripsaw. So these factors make it difficult to determine what is actually causing any difference to cut speed & quality.

Ultimately, we each have to figure out what works best for us. And keep telling us on the forum what you find out - the more ideas that get thrown about & tested, the more we might rediscover some of those fast-fading skills of saw maintenence!

Cheers & many happy hours of making sawdust,

As sawing expertise goes I'm the apprentices unpaid help. As it stands I've created one saw that has far more potential to do great work than I can adequately utilise. If you're still around in 40 years I'll be in touch!