Thread: Help with a Monster Required

Don't be down on the 'WS', man

Do you think either of the handle or saw-nuts might not be original? Has the handle been off? Is it beech or apple?

Eagle says american ... but you already know that. I think the great majority of hardware-store saws had WS medallions (individual stores with their own etch) and some of those saws are really good quality.

I have a Disston #107 (cheap end) that sounds like a #12 ... I think it is really under-appreciated the quality of product that was being churned out back then.

I'm not sure how many saws would have been made without any taper ... my assumption is that they were all set up for production anyway, so ...

In any case, a saw like that (yours) made today would cost $300 or $400+++.

Hope it gets (another) good home.

Cheers,
Paul


Then again ... that handle with the extra bit of inside curve is right for a big rip saw.
... I'm thinking #7 or #107 ... with either the medallion changed for some reason ... or a hardware store etch that has worn off.

Apple handle -> #8 ... ?

Paul

All of your suggestions are quite possible.

I quite understand and indeed accept your comment on WS saws. In fact this saw verifies exactly what you have said.

At one stage I purchased a number of bare saw plates (no handles) and many have no identifying etch. Quite a few have no taper or at least nothing worth mentioning so they are immediately discarded and consigned to be scrapers or portable support for my magnetic light.

Just getting back to the monster in question with a little more information, I forgot to mention that it has progressive teeth. It starts at 7ppi, then 6ppi before reaching the 5 1/2ppi stamped on the plate.

Then last night I was reading up a little on the WS medallions and remembered that Simonds had replacement medallions in their catalogue, but only WS. Unfortunately the picture is taken at a slightly oblique angle and the top of the medallion is only barely visible. However, I can see enough that it has the eagle and what looks exactly like the shield with horizontal lines.

My scanner will not reproduce the picture, but I will try the work scanner tonight. I will be interested to see what you and any others think. Having said all that, it doesn't quite fit the Simonds line up. Their secondary lines had the Bay State name and medallion. The third level saws went under a variety of names and from the catalogues it looks as though they had WS medallions, but it is not clear (typical Simonds) and to date I have only been able to track down one of these third level saws, which has no medallion at all.

It is surprising that no etch was visible (I didn't rub it away; There was nothing evident; Zilch) and I just can't see such a refined saw (taper, progressive tooth and yes, apple handle) being at the tail end of the model line up.

A likely explanation is that it is a hardware store model as you suggested and the fact it has an apple handle fits that side of things. I have seen it stated that almost all saws of the era were made in the factories of Disston, Atkins, Simonds and Bishop. So if the medallion was a Simonds WS that would be another explanation.

I would dearly love it to be a Simonds: Then I can keep it !

Regards
Paul

Hello Paul,

your "monster" saw certainly is different to what we normally see about the place.

28", progressive pitch of 7-6-51/2, extreme taper, apple handle, w.s medallion, no etch.

My thoughts on this saw are, that it could have been a special order of a Disston no. 7 rip saw,
(is yours filled as a rip saw?)
as you probable know, they had a 28" straight back with a decorative nib, but had a beech handle.

Your saw looks just like a 1920's Disston no. 7. but with the above characteristics and being ordered
here in Australia it would only be given a W.S. medallion, and no etch.

It's a good looking saw, and if it were in my till it would be staying.

Graham.

Graham

The saw came from the States so that may alter some of your assumptions. It was filed rip and I believe (but can't be categorically certain) that it was the factory sharpening as it was still perfect.

Regards
Paul

Is the ppi mark still in the corner? I'm guessing yes? a look at the "font" of that would be of some interest.

I laid hands on a similar example that might "explain" the lack of branding ...

It's also 28", WS, (edited)[beech handle I think - very smooth], maybe a touch earlier with the small-headed bolts ... different eagle ...
You can see the difference between your rip-enabling grip vs "normal" (even tho' this is also a long ripsaw)

20150608_111705 (Medium).jpg 20150608_111729 (Medium).jpg


but it has a bit of the hardware store etch left ... and it is up 'frontish' where eg a Disston etch might normally be found.
I think this photo shows how it could easily be lost with use and a bit more time ...

20150608_111824 (Medium).jpg

In person it's a bit easier to read 'Extra London', 'Spring Steel', 'DM Wills', and 'Warranted'

20150608_111829 (Medium).jpg 20150608_111906 (Medium).jpg

Paul

Thanks for that comparison.

The strange thing is that my WS saw has obviously had almost no use. So where the hell did the etch go? It can hardly have worn off!

I did notice with your saw that the handle is much more intricate ahead of the top horn. I guess that is what you mean by the "rip enabling" grip on my saw.

Incidentally, I was measuring up the teeth to pass on the specifications and in fact there are, starting from the toe, 2" of 7ppi, 4" of 6 1/2ppi, 1" of 6ppi before going to the full 5 1/2 ppi (which is stamped on the heel.) I do have a pic of the stamp but I see that it was cut off in the original pix. I will post at a later date.

Regards
Paul

Interesting saw.
What do the nuts look like on the other side?

More pix tomorrow to answer questions.

Regards
Paul

It's mentioned, I think, somewhere on the Disstonian website ... only on 26" (??) and 28"+ ripsaws ...

The "rip-grip" curls over a bit more to give thumb-space to the second hand.

These two ...



vs


... and the smooth scoop on the top instead of a "beak/nib" like my one has also helps for the second hand.
Cuts costs too no doubt ... and so that feature became blander over time.

Cheers,
Paul


Ah ... on this page ... http://www.disstonianinstitute.com/7page.html

And incidentally ... same page shows #7's with a nib up to 1927.

Thanks Paul

I hadn't twigged that the No.7 retained a nib so late.

Here are some more pix:

Warranted Superior 28inch with nib 020.jpgWarranted Superior 28inch with nib 015.jpg

Pic of the Simonds WS medallion tonight.

Regards
Paul

Thanks. I don't know anything from the ppi writing ... but still interested.

BTW I forgot to say that the WILLS/WILLIS saw I posted isn't resonant. It's a pretty solid thunker without a lively sound.

Cheers,
Paul

I have been researching a little and have found the following examples with a similar WS medallion:

W.Stevens:

http://www.wkfinetools.com/hUS-saws/...Superior-1.asp

This is a good reference and my medallion features under the WS section, but alas, no information.

http://lumberjocks.com/summerfi/blog/39861

I am trying to load an enlarged version of the medallion featured in one of my Simonds catalogues, but the PDF file has so far beaten me at each turn. Still working on it.

Regards
Paul

I have all but given up. Also on close inspection the shield on the breast of the eagle looks the same, but the wings are spread and not hunched as in my saw . In fact none of the poses I have seen replicate my saw.

If you can enlarge the scan below, you may be able to see some of the design on the Simonds medallion.

Regards
Paul

PS: That would be right. I have inserted it three times and none of them open. Help!

PPS:
I may have spoken in haste. It came up at the bottom of the page and I could enlarge the picture satisfactorily.


Simonds WS Medallion.pdfSimonds WS Medallion.pdfSimonds WS Medallion.pdf

Originally Posted by Bushmiller

on close inspection the shield on the breast of the eagle looks the same, but the wings are spread
Simonds WS Medallion.pdfSimonds WS Medallion.pdfSimonds WS Medallion.pdf

I think that might just be an "indicative drawing" (??)

If I can move a few large boxes around, I know I have some WS medals on Simmonds saws ... I'll try to have a look.