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Thread: Kinked saw plate repair
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31st July 2014, 01:15 AM #1Novice
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Kinked saw plate repair
I recently bought an older backsaw on ebay, nothing fancy but looked like a good user. However to my disappointment the plate has a kink along the entire length. I haven't contacted the seller yet, since I want to know if it is possible to fix it first.
Does anyone know if it is possible to hammer out in some way?
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31st July 2014, 10:56 AM #2
It is possible and Bob Smalser does an article on saw hammering, however I wouldn't think that you'd get it right the first time and that you may have less hassle in returning it.
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31st July 2014, 12:36 PM #3Deceased
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Hi kaf. There is a good chance the backsaw may have been dropped at some stage and it has altered the fit of the saw plate within its spine creating the problem you mention. I am assuming the saw spine is the folded type and not one that has been machine slot.
I would suggest you try the following.
1. Remove the backsaw handle and spine from the saw plate. (google for directions on how best to remove and re-fit a backsaw spine.)
2. Use a fine scraper blade to clean out any build up inside the saw spine slit.
3. Lightly scrape any scale or build up along the top edge the saw plate that will be inserted inside the spine.
4. Take the time to sight along the top edge of the saw spine to insure its not bent or warped.
5. Measure the full depth of the spine slit.
6. On the top edge of the saw plate mark a line each that 3/4s the full depth of the spine.
7. Wipe a thin smear of wax over both sides of the top saw plate that will be covered by the spine when its refitted.
8. Refit the spine to the saw plate. using the lines pre-marked to guide you how far to come down with the spine.
9. Sight along the saw plate tooth line to see if the saw plate is now in a straight line.
10. If all looks good, refit the backsaw handle. Job completed.
Good luck.
regards;Stewie.
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31st July 2014, 01:33 PM #4
Hi Planemaker. I viewed kaf's sketch differently. I think the "thing" at the top is the spine, not the handle, and therefore the kink is 20-25mm above the tooth line. As such, I don't think your suggested fix will make any difference*. Feel free to kick me if I'm wrong .
* nevertheless that looks to be good advice for any backsaw refurbish (my first one or two of which I hope to partake of, before Christmas).
Cheers, Vann.Gatherer of rustyplanestools...
Proud member of the Wadkin Blockhead Club .
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31st July 2014, 04:10 PM #5
I agree with Vann, If I understand the drawing correctly the kink is running along the length of the saw just above, and parallel to the tooth line, in which case I'd say it's going to be tricky to get straight.
I think you have two options, one, would be to cut the kinked section off the saw and re-tooth it. Second option would be to cut and fit a whole new blade. Neither option is as hard as it sounds. And both are a lot easier than the alternative hammering..
The procedure that Stewie described is a good description of how to fix a curved blade, but I think this is a kink along the saw length.
Pictures would help clarify exactly what the problem is.
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31st July 2014, 05:51 PM #6Deceased
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Van and Ray. You may be correct from the drawing shown. Its not that common to come across a backsaw with a kink that's parallel to the tooth line as you mention Ray.
A couple of photo's would make it much easier to make a precise determination of the problem. One that shows the spine line, and another that shows the tooth line. End of the day I am sure with all our combined experience we can help kaf overcome this problem with his backsaw.
Nice work to with the advise gents. Good to see.
Stewie;
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1st August 2014, 03:10 AM #7
I depends if you mean a kink in the sense of a crease??
Can this old backsaw be rescued? : Hand Tools - UKworkshop.co.uk
Diagnosing Common Issues with Hand Saws | Norse Woodsmith
"Kinks are another thing to be wary of on a handsaw. Kinks are stresses, dents, and bends in the saw plate that prevent it from being straight. Unless you want to saw like Picasso painted, try to avoid kinked saws. Kinks can be removed by a skilled saw smith, but unless you can find one, or can tackle it yourself, these saws are best passed over. Removing kinks isn’t entirely too difficult, but its a whole other learning curve."
Picking a Winner: How to buy a vintage handsaw
Matt has described somewhere straightening backsaws by knocking the back onto the blade better ...
"2. Is the saw plate straight - This is one of the first things I do when picking up a vintage saw. I sight down the blade looking for straightness. If it has a kink or severe bends I usually put it back down. A slight bend I can straighten by bending in the opposite direction. A kink takes special hammer work and is tricky to get right."
takeadiptools.com - RESTORING HANDSAWS
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1st August 2014, 03:47 AM #8
Hmmmm ... wasn't showing any replies before ... :/
Paul
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1st August 2014, 08:44 AM #9Novice
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Vann and Ray are correct, the crease is about 1" from the tooth line. Right now I am away on holiday but I will try to take some better photos when I come back. I have a bad one taken with my webcam.
I'll try some of the tips when I get back, but I am starting to realise that the saw may be beyond repair and I don't know wether I should bother the seller. Here is a link to ebay
I have another blade that I can try inserting in the back, and maybe try to make a saw inspired by Smith's key, however it is a little bit thicker.
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1st August 2014, 11:12 PM #10Deceased
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Hi kaf. Can you look to see if the saw spine is straight. From the photo supplied its looks like the spine curves to the right when viewed from the handle end.
Stewie;
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2nd August 2014, 12:24 AM #11Novice
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2nd August 2014, 09:32 AM #12
Caveat emptor, eh? A bit naughty of the seller not to have mentioned such an obvious fault, but perhaps he/she thought it was a special saw for cutting curves. I can see a distinct line in the ebay picture, which I would have taken to be a scratch before you alerted us to the bend. If the line I can see is the kink, you would have to chop off a rather alarming amount of blade to get rid of it. This is a new saw injury in my experience - how on earth did someone manage to do that to a saw blade?
The blade looks to be in fairly poor condition apart from the kink, so I'd have no hesitation in replacing it. If you didn't want to tackle making a blade from scratch, I'm sure you could get yourself a new blade in the right gauge, toothed & sharpened, & ready to use. If you can't find someone closer to home like the "Two Lawyers" to do it, you should be able to get it from someone like Ron Bontz in the US. All you'd need to do is drill a couple of holes for the bolts, & probably grind a little bit off the top rear to get it to fit inside the handle, both pretty simple & straightforward tasks. You could end up with a very good saw that hasn't cost the earth....
Cheers,
Edit: kaf, I read your location as Denmark & thought 'Europe', but are you in Denmark, W.A?IW
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2nd August 2014, 02:02 PM #13
Kaf
The first problem in returning the saw ( if the seller accepts the problem) is that he is in the UK and your return postage costs will be high.
I wouldn't have picked the fault from the pix and indeed the seller claims the saw is straight, which it is not. I suspect the saw had been on the floor at some time and a heavy machine, such as a table saw, jointer or similar placed on top. It would have been done accidentally, but that doesn't help you.
So what to do? I think I would contact the seller and advise him or the fault. I would take clear pictures identifying the fault and point out he said the plate was straight and you took him at his word. Perhaps say that you appreciate he may not be a saw buff and you accept that he offered the saw in good faith, but also point out that the saw is useless in it's current state.
Then ask him for his comments. If he is a reputable seller, he will offer some discount rather than return of the goods. This discount may at least go part of the way to compensating for a new saw plate. If he does not agree that he has misrepresented the goods, file a dispute through Paypal. They will take up the cudgel on your behalf if your claim is warranted. Just be aware that any dispute must be filed within 45 days from the sale date to be considered.
One comment I would make on the original listing is that out of only four pix, two were grossly out of focus. Why do people do that? What a complete waste of time.
I agree with Ian that a replacement plate (new or s/h) would be the way to go if you retain the saw.
Good luck.
Regards
PaulBushmiller;
"Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely!"
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2nd August 2014, 05:24 PM #14SENIOR MEMBER
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I agree with bushmiller, I'd contact the seller, explaining that the saw is not useable, but that it's not financially feasible to pay return postage for a refund, and see if he offers you a partial refund. His advert says it's in good condition and ready to use, so I'd say you're entitled to rate negatively if he doesn't offer you some sort of refund, even if it's only partial.
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3rd August 2014, 01:40 AM #15Novice
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Thank you so much for the answers my friends. I always like to come this forum people have always been very kind and helpful.
I have contacted the seller now to see what he has to say about it.
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