Thread: Two Lawyers meet Moxon and Josh

Looks like he's inherited the right set of genes, Ray. Those are well-executed d-tails indeed! A close-up photo often finds flaws that one doesn't see in the flesh, but I can't see the minutest gap anywhere. The only negative to me is those wafer-thin pins. They look interesting, but on a heavy chest like that, I would worry about them shearing off if it were ever dropped. However, I'm an habitual over-engineerer.

Got to agree with you that a good saw, well-sized to the job in hand is just a delight to use. Been using my small thin-plate saws a lot, lately, on a very fiddly job (which I will post when it's done) & really enjoying being able to split scribe-lines at will...

Cheers,

Lovely storey there Ray, it reminds me of hours spent in the garage workshop with my own father.
do you lovingly refer to some of Josh's efforts as "only a nong would do it that way" all the while being secretly proud of his efforts? (writing this is bringing tears to my eyes)
Apart from what you have taught Josh, what have you learnt from him? let him know so he can treasure the memory in future years

as to the saw, you could always "borrow" it back ...

Hi IanW

Thanks for the comments, I'll pass them on, I've pretty much got the saw back, but he was going through his tools today and I spotted that nice little DT saw that you made had somehow moved magically into his tool chest.. Grrr... I'll let him off this time, but now I know where it is...

I looked over every joint on that chest, and he split the line every time, dammed if I could do that... maybe he just has more patience than me I guess.

And yes Ian, we tend to argue a bit, I try to tell him how it should be done, and then he goes off and does it the opposite way, which is bad enough, but his way is usually better, which makes it even worse.... (but secretly I'm proud of his attitude and skills, hope he doesn't read this...)

Lately he has been spending a lot of time on the mill, lathe and surface grinder, He's not half bad either... the only thing I still have complete sway over is welding... gotta keep in front somehow.

Regards
Ray

A nice looking little saw and no lack of talent using it, but I also agree that the narrow pins make that a very weak chest.

Hi WW,

I'm inclined to agree a bit about the pin size, but you forget the "show off" factor that is paramount,
I'm reliably told you absolutely must have vanishingly small pins that couldn't possibly be made on a router jig...

Seriously, when it's all glued up, (using your favourite horse sauce).. I think it will be ok.

Incidentally, in one of the pictures you can see the hot wax thing in the background, if I recall correctly I think I pinched that idea from your writings.. works a treat.

I've been commissioned to forge the hardware for it, so maybe I can get some forged steel reinforcing brackets somewhere into the design...

And yes, the saw is a delight, clean fast and nicely balanced.

Regards
Ray

Very good to work with another person especially when it is your son.

Originally Posted by RayG

.......he split the line every time, dammed if I could do that... maybe he just has more patience than me I guess.

No, Ray, more likely youth & more acute eyesight! Good workmanship + good eyesight = good job

It's getting harder to keep that equation balanced, as the years roll by......
Cheers,

Ray

It seems to me that Josh has chosen his father well

Many of the worlds great innovators over the centuries were ridiculed when they decided to do things differently, and later proved to be correct so perhaps Josh is destined for greatness.

On the subject of skinny pins. The subject of their strength interests me. Adding up the number of pins this would equate to a sizeable section of Vic Ash, which I would be sure I could not break easily. likewise the joint will have a great deal of surface area for the glue, which should prove to be very strong.

Aesthetically, a long even row of the same sized dovetails does not appeal to me, as would prefer the spacing & pin sizes to be more asymmetrical.

I don't wish to hijack your post Ray but would be very interested to hear from everyone re thoughts on the strength / weakness of this particular joint.

Full marks to Josh on his work.

Regards

Hi IanW,
I think you are on to something there, good eyesight and a steady hand. Josh read the comments this morning, and he said, it's easy to split the line when the kerf is thinner than the line itself.... easy for some maybe...

Hi Basil,

Thanks for the comments, and yes, he will do well, not because he sometimes does things differently, but because he listens, thinks things through, and then makes up his own mind.

On the question of how strong the thin pins are, I really don't know, but there are a LOT of them and they would have to break with a twisting shearing action, (like dropping onto a corner with a heavy load of books in the chest).. if you add up the total thickness on the front corners where the drawer goes, there are 14 pins, so it would be equivalent to breaking a bit of mountain ash 5 or 6 inches wide by 3/4 thick. I'm guessing it would take a decent blow to break it. I suspect it would fail by splitting the panels before the pins broke.

Nonetheless, in the spirit of monument building (which is how most of my projects end up overengineered) I think some forged steel (suitcase style) corners will look nice, and beef it up a bit.

Regards
Ray

PS.. On the aesthetics of asymmetric spacing, on the right piece and done with an eye for balance proportion, I agree.
Done badly and it just ends up looking like sloppy craftsmanship. (to the uneducated eye that is). The japanese seem to do asymmetric designs amazingly well..

Originally Posted by Basilg

....On the subject of skinny pins. The subject of their strength interests me. Adding up the number of pins this would equate to a sizeable section of Vic Ash, which I would be sure I could not break easily. likewise the joint will have a great deal of surface area for the glue, which should prove to be very strong.

Bas - the small flaw in your reasoning is that it would be unlikely that all pins would be taking the strain simultaneously. What is far more likely is that the impact or unusual load will be taken by one or a couple of pins. If they fail, then the force may proceed to break the next, & so on. It's analagous to threads failing under tension.

Of course, we don't all make furniture to be dropped out of second-story windows as Sam Maloof reckoned he liked to do (& I guess that's my problem too). The nice thing about building your own stuff is you can do it however it pleases you, & viva la difference!
Cheers,

beautiful job mate.
you must be proud of your son.

justin.

Thats not just woodwork thats microsurgery

Originally Posted by ian

do you lovingly refer to some of Josh's efforts as "only a nong would do it that way" all the while being secretly proud of his efforts? (writing this is bringing tears to my eyes)

Ian, That made me laugh. It reminded me that "nong" is a term very much of my parent's generation. My father used to use it a lot but I haven't heard it much recently. I'll have to bring it back into the lexicon.

Fantastic dovetails Ray!

Great post Ray!! You are obviously very proud of Josh, and so you should be!!

Beautiful looking saw and excellent work by your apprentice!!

The more I see of these moxon Vises the more inclined I am to possee one!