Thread: A lovely Tutorial of hand planes, But wait till the end WOW.

Watched his video on special planes today. He got out the 51/52 he made. Very impressive, cast in bronze. He did say that he had been a pattern maker for a time and showed the pattern for it. Really great videos to watch. So enthused just planing a board even after doing it for over 50 years. You cant help but keep watching.
Regards
John

Originally Posted by derekcohen

Jim Kingshott wrote about the Stanley #51/52 copy he built in his book “Making and Modifying Woodworking Tools”. Plans available .... Now out of print ... a few years ago a copy was selling for $1200! (I have a copy ).




Regards from Perth

Derek

Derek,

I’ve only just realised that the Jim I was talking about is the the Jim that wrote “Making and Modifying Woodworking Tools”
I will take my self off too the Dummies Corner I don’t need an escort thank you.[emoji849].

Matt🥹🥹🥹

Originally Posted by IanW

Me? Impatient? Yairs, maybe, but not old! Ancient is what some are calling me.....

So you think seeing that monster shooter will provoke an urge in me to make something like it, eh Matt? Well, this is one time I can say "no way in the wide world!" with absolute conviction! The amount of work to make one of those makes me cringe at the thought. Making & fettling tools was a bit of a specialty of Jim's so I've no doubt it works as well as it looks. It's a magnificent thing to behold & that's about all I could do with it these days - put it behind a glass door & just be-hold (not "hold" it!). I'm not sure I'm remembering it correctly, but I think he actually made that plane himself too. Having made two panel planes at half the length of that jointer, I can truly appreciate the effort & the result; it's magnificent....

Derek, the book you refer to that sold for $1200 must have been an original hardback copy, surely? It's available new from Amazon for a mere $146.99 if anyone desperately wants a copy. I don't have a copy myself but have perused a friend's copy thoroughly & it's certainly a useful reference for anyone contemplating making tools to have on hand. However, I think a raw beginner at making metal planes might find it covers a few aspects very lightly, which is inevitable when you cover so much ground in one fairly compact book. Less of a problem for the moderately experienced.

I think we are all smitten by those amazing old traditional toolboxes when we first see them. I certainly was, & resolved instantly to make one for myself. However, a quick reality check said I had not yet acquired anything like the skills that would be required to do it justice, plus a very limited work area & an even more limited tool kit. Then by the time my skills & tools were a little more up to the job, I'd decided a traditional tool chest would not meet my particular needs, and built a very non-traditional cupboard instead. At least it holds the tools in a more conveniently-accessed way - no bending down scrabbling for something in one of those bottom tills! To satisfy the tool-chest urge, I had intended making a miniature "traditional'' chest for the mini tool set I made for my first attempt at the Wootha "tiny treasures" competition, but time was running away fast & I settled for a simpler chest, partly because the theme for that year was "recycle & re-use'' & I had this ancient dark cedar from an old door that I wanted to use, so it became this instead : Attachment 536381

I was just looking at it the other day & thinking there are a couple of 'essential' planes missing from the bunch (like a side-filletster, which I'd started on at the time but abandoned as the deadline loomed), but no room to squeeze it in there without major remodelling. So there's a good project fore me when we downsize in a year or two, & Matt, who knows? I might even be tempted to make one of those Kingshott jointers (suitably shrunk) to round out the full complement....

Cheers,

Ian, actually this time I wasn’t stirring the pot,[emoji6]

Jim’s joiner Plane is an absolute stunning beast, an I will be honest I have “ theoretically considered such an undertaking, but I don’t think I will be lapping the soul, but maybe just maybe, scraping the soul flat,

But these are all just words, one I don’t have the materials, two the only things I’ve ever scrapped were my knee caps an that was many decades gone by and that was using the Pavement an my Push bike lol.

The Tool chest thingy, I’ve never had any aspirations too build one, my Toy tools are currently slowly moving out from there storage containers into there new home, an that will be on shelves an cupboards an other thingys but not into a Tool chest, I would forget what I had if they were in one of those.

Cheers Matt.

Originally Posted by Simplicity

Ian, actually this time I wasn’t stirring the pot,.......

Matt are you ok? You're not suffering from some severe ailment or something.....?

Originally Posted by Simplicity

.... my Toy tools are currently slowly moving out from there storage containers into there new home, an that will be on shelves an cupboards an other thingys but not into a Tool chest, I would forget what I had if they were in one of those....

But my boy, that's the whole point of having a tool chest/cupboard! As long as I remember to put things away each night (which I dutifully do at least one night in every 7 or so), I know roughly where everything is. Actually, I know exactly where everything is because I went to great pains to make cut-outs to fit everything, so I can see at a glance if someone hasn't has come home for the night & isn't hiding amongst the shavings. It's saved small tools from ending up in the garbage with the sweepings on numerous occasions. As I get older & more absent-minded, I'm really glad I prepared for it. Of course that won't help when I start forgetting what the tools are for, but we'll jump off that bridge when we get there.....


Cheers,

Originally Posted by derekcohen

Jim Kingshott wrote about the Stanley #51/52 copy he built in his book “Making and Modifying Woodworking Tools”. Plans available .... Now out of print ... a few years ago a copy was selling for $1200! (I have a copy ).




Regards from Perth

Derek

Derek

I thought $1200 was expensive for the plane. Errrr.........I think you meant the book sold for that!



Regards
Paul

Originally Posted by Simplicity

I will take myself off to the Dummies Corner I don’t need an escort thank you.[emoji849].

Matt🥹🥹🥹

Matt

I think time spent in the corner would pass more pleasantly with the escort.



Regards
Paul

Originally Posted by Bennykenobi

Hypothetically, if I had downloaded a pdf of a scan of Kingshott's book I would be happy to share it with anyone who DMd me seeing as there is no ebook edition and the cost of the physical title is high and it's not currently in print. If I had this hypothetical pdf I imagine I'd also have or be able to find scans of other out of print woodworking books which go for a pretty penny these days if an individual was interested in checking them out... Hypothetically... But being a librarian I would NEVER do something like freely distribute books and information.

Hypothetically, these would only be out of print titles that don't have an ebook version, nothing which is still in print.

Did I say hypothetically enough?

Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk

Quite so Sir Humphrey Appleby

Originally Posted by Bushmiller

I thought $1200 was expensive for the plane. Errrr.........I think you meant the book sold for that!

Unless I am doing something wrong a Google search will find you a book for less than $100.

Originally Posted by Bushmiller

Matt

I think time spent in the corner would pass more pleasantly with the escort.



Regards
Paul

That is subjective, an I think you’re making assumptions the “Escort would be attractive an amendable too my possible “Needs”

An welcome home [emoji6].

Cheers Matt.

Was that gorgeous tool chest made by Jim Kingshott during his apprenticeship built to a "standard pattern"?

The reason I ask is that a great uncle of mine who lived in the Midlands of Tasmania made an almost identical one for his apprenticeship prior to World War 1. Differences that I picked were:

• constructed from red cedar (exotic to Tasmania),
• carrying handles were looped steel rather than rope,
• top slides had hinged lids,
• lower slides had drawers,
• fitted wooden tool tote
• fitted nail and screw drawers.

The tool tote and fastener drawers perfectly fitted the space above the saw till and in front of the sliding trays and effectively locked everything in place when the tool box was being moved. I can remember that tool chest being slid up a plank to get it onto a ute when I was at primary school.

Graeme, I believe from what I've read (& Jim Kingshot said as much in the video), that the tool chests were a fairly standardised design which had evolved over quite long time to serve a cabinetmaker's needs. Tool chests had been around since at least mediaeval times & probably well before that, though the couple I've seen pictures of had far simpler interiors than 18th & 19th century examples. I don't know when the elaborate interiors were first made on a regular basis, but I vaguely remember reading somewhere that it became fashionable in England in the early Georgian period, so it would have been well-established by the time your uncle served his time. That would make sense as it was a time when cabinetmaking was developing into a very highly skilled business with the likes of Chippendale, Sheraton & Hepplewhite setting some high hurdles & the tradesmen would have access to offcuts from a wide range of imported & local woods . The Seaton chest is dated at 1796, and is remarkably similar in concept to Jim's, though the details vary. I imagine the more ambitious apprentices would always want to put a few personal touches on their chests...

Cheers,

I'm fairly sure I dropped the planes book off at half price book a few years ago. That's a place where they give you about a dollar a book.

If I did, it would be normal to pretend to be mad, but personally, I hate the racked of the cons looking for a mark on amazon.

One of my favorite books is the seaton chest book (just because it has extreme detail in it and I can actually make the tools that are in it thanks to that). when I was looking for it, there were gobs of overpriced versions online and no timeline for updated stock at regular vendors.

You're not supposed to order them from england if you're in the US but I just ignored that and I think I ordered one from TATHS because the worst they could do is tell me no. Instead, they shipped it with a nice note of thanks inside the cover for purchasing the book. For about $45.

I miss people like Kingshott - there's a lifetime of do and then sharing the information vs. a lifetime of trying to share information without having done the "do".

It sounds cynical, but every time I talk about something I'm well versed in (Ok, there are few of those) and someone wants me to explain why the advice may not match the wood whisperer or pall cellars or james wright, I wonder why I bothered. if someone said "kingshott did that another way", I'd instantly want to know what it was.

Originally Posted by derekcohen

Jim Kingshott wrote about the Stanley #51/52 copy he built in his book “Making and Modifying Woodworking Tools”. Plans available .... Now out of print ... a few years ago a copy was selling for $1200! (I have a copy ).




Regards from Perth

Derek

Books are funny like that. The prices swing wildly. Maybe it was signed of something to attract such a price. Amazon is selling it for $180AUD.

It's also at archive.org on one hour loan.

I have The New Fine Points of Furniture Early American, by Albert Sack, and some years back I saw it selling for over $250USD, now it's on amazon for $90AUD, which is also on archive.org for one hour loans. I thought about selling it then, now I'd be lucky to get $50 on market place.

I cannot imagine paying sums like that for a book, especially one on woodworking. But all is relative. Some cannot look at new "premium" planes without considering them an extravagence.

About 15 years ago I did sell a book for $6000 ... which was pretty good since I paid 50 cents for it from a second-hand book shop. It was a mimiograph edition of the first book written by a highly influential psychotherapist in the 1960s, and it went to a USA university. This cheap-looking book had probably been lying on the bookshop shelf for some years. It helps to be able to recognise the work.

Supply and Demand. Many years ago I was a member of an international Porsche 356 forum/club. There was one book in particular, a substantial history of Porsche, written by an acclaimed motor journalist. Out of print and a badge of being a serious collector, it sold for over $500. That was all those years ago.

No doubt that there are serious collectors in all walks of life. And there are Sellers that try their luck.

Regards from Perth

Derek