Thread: Narex mortise chisels

Nice work! I have some of their cabinet chisels and while they are good for the price I really hate the handle shape and finish. Once I've got my lathe up and running I'm going to turn up some new handles for them as my first turning project.

It's a minor complaint though, I can't expect the earth from a $20 chisel and they've otherwise been a great buy.

Nice job - nothing wrong with Narex steel, so you've got yourself a nice set of chisels. I think the 25 degree bevel/30 degree microbevel is the best compromise for most timbers, but what angle do the Narex come with as supplied?

Cheers

Mr Brush; the Narex mortise chisels are supplied with a 24 degree primary bevel, but no secondary bevel. Other sources will recommend a steeper 35 degree secondary bevel for their mortise chisels.

Stewie;

Everyone has his/her favoured shapes, some find the Narex handles very much to their liking, but I don't find they suit me. It wasn't only the finish I didn't like, I found the handle shape just wasn't 'right' on the Narex cranked paring chisels I got a while back, so I replaced those pronto: Handles cf.jpg

I've tried all the 'standard' styles of handle over the years. Some shapes, like the "London" pattern are interesting to look at & ok to use, but over time I've pared back to rather minimalist shapes for most chisel handles. The "egg" shaped handles like the one above are pretty boring, but I find them very comfortable to use in this context...

Cheers,

Horses for courses, Ian. I like the egg handle you made - not only the aesthetic, but I imagine that you push with the heel of your hand or palm. The handles should nestle there comfortably. However mortice chisels are gripped in a fist. They need to offer some information about the direction they are pointed. These Narex look round. If so, they would benefit from flats on the sides.

The second issue is the way the bevel is prepared. This is ultimately a personal choice - since Japanese mortice chisels have a 30-35 degree primary bevel, and are honed flat on this, while a oval bolstered chisel typically uses a 20 degree primary and a 35 degree micro secondary bevel. The latter makes it easier to penetrate deeply into the wood. I cannot see a high primary bevel doing so, and that may reflect that Japanese mortice chisels are more commonly used in softwood (in Japan).

Personally, I would make new handles (to suit my hand) for the Narex mortice chisels, and finish the wood with Shellawax.

Regards from Perth

Derek

The new finish on the Narex mortise chisels turned out quite nice. Each of the chisel blades were given a fresh primary and secondary bevel, before being honed to a single convex curve. Nice and sharp and ready for the next mortising job.

Stewie;

Ian, as Derek mentioned, paring chisels are not mortise chisels. As for not liking the handle shape on the Narex mortise chisels, boo hoo to both of you.

Stewie;

Originally Posted by planemaker

Ian, as Derek mentioned, paring chisels are not mortise chisels. As for not liking the handle shape on the Narex mortise chisels, boo hoo to both of you.

Stewie, I wouldn't criticise anyone who likes the Narex handles - lots of folks have said they love 'em - all good! They are just too big for my fist and too far from the action for me to maintain control. I've gravitated to this style for firmer & mortising chisels: Mortice chisel set.jpg

I hold the handle low-down, with thumb & middle finger in the groove above the socket, partly so my hand is well clear of the odd mis-hit, but mainly because it's easier for me to place the edge accurately that way. I don't need flats, because part of my hand is on the blade & I can feel where it is. It's all just a matter of what you get used to (& the size of your fist, p'raps.. ).

Originally Posted by derekcohen

.....but I imagine that you push with the heel of your hand or palm. The handles should nestle there comfortably....

That, indeed, is pretty much how it works, Derek. And yep, they are mighty comfortable to use (again, for me).

Originally Posted by derekcohen

....These Narex look round. If so, they would benefit from flats on the sides....

The Narex mortisers (& BE) do have partially flattened sides - you can see this in the 'finished' pics Stewie posted. As I said, some people find them quite comfy - handles are such a personal thing, which is why so may styles exist, of course..

Cheers,

Incidentally, if anyone is making their own handles and including top hoops, don't make the mistake I made in the ones shown in the post above! I didn't leave anywhere near enough wood above the hoop, so there is nothing to mushroom over the hoop & hold it in place - they come loose during the dry months & I'm forever retrieving thm from the sawdust & shavings on the floor.

I figured out the solution after a bit (& read it in the Titan book. Ya shoulda got it out a few years earlier, & saved me the trouble, Dick!). The solution is simply to make the spigot that the hoop is fitted to long enough that it sticks above the hoop by a good 4-6mm. I did that with a set of firmer chisel handles and have had no problems at all. It's on the to-do list to fix the mortising chisel handles, but quite a way down, so I'll be dropping hoops & cursing my foolishness for a little while yet, I expect.
Cheers,

Originally Posted by IanW

Stewie, I wouldn't criticise anyone who likes the Narex handles - lots of folks have said they love 'em - all good! They are just too big for my fist and too far from the action for me to maintain control. I've gravitated to this style for firmer & mortising chisels: Mortice chisel set.jpg

I hold the handle low-down, with thumb & middle finger in the groove above the socket, partly so my hand is well clear of the odd mis-hit, but mainly because it's easier for me to place the edge accurately that way. I don't need flats, because part of my hand is on the chisel itself, & I can feel where it is. It's all just a matter of what you get used to (& the size of your fist, p'raps.. ).



That, indeed, is pretty much how it works, Derek. And yep, they are mighty comfortable to use (again, for me).



The Narex mortisers (& BE) do have partially flattened sides - you can see this in the 'finished' pics Stewie posted. As I said, some people find them quite comfy - handles are such a personal thing, which is why so may styles exist, of course..

Cheers,

That's the problem I have with the handle shape, I have pretty small hands and tend to favor holding both the handle and steel so the stock handles are way too big for me.

Scale = 2 : 1 (mm)

Originally Posted by IanW

I figured out the solution after a bit (& read it in the Titan book. Ya shoulda got it out a few years earlier, & saved me the trouble, Dick!). The solution is simply to make the spigot that the hoop is fitted to long enough that it sticks above the hoop by a good 4-6mm. I did that with a set of firmer chisel handles and have had no problems at all. It's on the to-do list to fix the mortising chisel handles, but quite a way down, so I'll be dropping hoops & cursing my foolishness for a little while yet, I expect.
Cheers,

Ian

I too derived some additional information from Dick's book and also now leave a fair piece of timber sticking out above the top ferrule, which in Titan language I now know is the dome, like this:

Chisel ferrule 002.jpg

That was done pre the Titan book, but there is still a problem in that if, as I did, you create a shoulder for the ferrule to sit on it can be driven down into the handle, although this is mitigated by the protruding dome if the person had done one:

Chisel ferrule 001.jpg

However, from Dick's book, I realised that Titan solved this problem, by creating a taper instead of a shoulder. The inside of the lower edge of the ferrule is also beveled so that there is no tendency to split down the length of the handle as in the pic above.

Incidentally, that at one time was my best chisel having had only three new handles and one new blade ( sorry, old axe story shamelessly borrowed).

This what I now do: Probably everybody else has done this for ever:

Chisel ferrule 003.jpgChisel ferrule 005.jpg

Fittingly (oops, just realised the pun) it is on the only Titan I own. The hardest part is machining the bevel. I just used a round file, but I see justification for that die grinder I have been promising myself for so many years. Probably a Dremel type tool would have worked too, but when I looked I had used up all the grinding stones and mini drum sanders.

That is a heavier ferrule than Titan used. Titan probably did not have access to the amount of old laundry piping that I have .

Regards
Paul

Paul, I read the 'solution' for split tops in the Titan book too - after I'd fixed the problem of them falling off! Had I seen that before I remade a whole set of handles for my Titans I would have most likely have added the additional refinement. I don't think splitting due to the hoops being driven down will be a problem in my lifetime. I only belt my chisels with wooden mallets, and even handles I've used a lot for years show virtually no effects, but it may happen in the future when someone gets over-enthusiastic with a steel hammer.

The badly beaten-up handles you see were often the result of walloping them into hard wood with the side of a claw hammer, as my father & many chippies of that generation were wont to do (& many probably do still..). I guess the old blokes had a living to make & a lot of chopping to do, with all those top & bottom plates to mortise for studs, so they weren't too worried about preserving chisel handles. Replacing a handle every now & then was probably the least of their worries!

Cheers,

Stewie

While I applaud the concept of a hollow secondary bevel with a final tertiary bevel at 35 degs, in practice does it last very long?

I think I am a little heavy handed when it comes to chisels but I find even the hollow primary bevel does not last that long.

Having said that, I can see that if the secondary bevel is ground on a bench grinder it will automatically be hollow.

Something I have observed with some old pig stickers I have is that the whole bevel is convex. I have ground that out thinking it to be poor sharpening, but the thought has occurred that possibly it was deliberate to maintain strength. Not that I think that is a problem as they are fairly massive. Failing that, it was just the consequence of sharpening by hand with a rocking motion.

Regards
Paul