Thread: Saw nibs

that works for me-

Rob

There has been much conjecture over the purpose of the nib. Many theories abound, but most are pure supposition. They have included holding string lines and also starting off a saw cut. The saws that were used to start off a cut using the nib typically are missing the same appendage!

The fact is that while the nib may be used for a purpose such as the presenter in your video, the original purpose was nothing more than decorative. The nib fell out of fashion gradually and not many nibs were seen after about 1920. Disston No.7 model, which was in fact his very first saw model, lasted until around 1927 and sported this "feature." Interestingly, the very first No.7s did not have a nib. The depressed area between the toe and the nib is called the "bead." On American saws the nib usually stands upright while on early British saws the nib tends to be angle forwards. See the Kenyon saws from the Benjamin Seaton Tool Chest pictured below. The nib is missing from one of the handsaws.

Benjamin Seaton saws.Book (2).jpg

This is from a 1912 Disston publication:

Disston 1912 publication. The Nib.png

It troubles me a little that people jump onto You Tube and make statements as if they have inside knowledge. The nib was only used on straight back saws. I wonder how our You Tuber copes if presented with a skewback saw? Having said that, if somebody uses the saw for the purpose he describes, that's fine.

Regards
Paul

Well, of all the "explanations" I've seen, this one does have an air of plausibility. As Paul implies, it would be less irritating if some of these professors of saw lore were to say "I think" or "It seems to me" a little more often instead of making bald statements. When people make such confident statements on contentious subjects as our man in the video does, it tends to provoke my sceptism immediately. His suggestion may be helpful if you regularly accidentally pull your saw out of the kerf on the upstroke (something I haven't had a problem with for at least 65 years), or find it hard to judge a 'full stroke', which doesn't take a huge amount of practice to achieve. But the clincher for me would be that there is no way I could see the damned nib without stronger specs!

Somewhere, I've seen a quote from Henry Disston himself (& I think it was in a Disston publication, so it should be a reliable source!), in which he says straight-out that the nib was pure decoration, so I reckon that, plus Paul's pointing out the lack of a nib on contemporary skew-backs is probably enough to settle the matter.

I certainly didn't buy one old chippy's explanation & demonstration that it was for use as a marking gauge (using your fingers as the "fence"). Apart from the rather coarse scratch it made, my fingers were not as calloused & splinter-proof as his and besides, I could see by the sly half-grin that he was pulling my leg....

Cheers,

My input is in regards to making bold statements instead of "I think" or "perhaps". My friend and fellow HTPSWA member, Bob, gave me this advice a good few years back. " Occasionally you're seeking advice on a tool but nobody can be bothered talking to you about it. Make a false statement ie "This tool was made in Perth", when you suspect it was really made in Sydney. "they will descend on you like flies to tell you how wrong you are" Thereby, hopefully, getting the information you wanted.

Cheers,
Geoff.

Why would a manufacturer be concerned or even bothered if the end user of there products uses the whole saw,
There business is selling you a saw, an if you don’t use the whole saw, do they care,especially Mr Disstion who was from what I can gather rather Shrewd at business.
You can easily tell Mr Disstion was more interested in selling saws than whether you know how too use saw, by the huge variety in his catalogues.


I also question the extra work that went into “making” the Nip, even the extra work in the Dies to punch out the saw plate(assuming they were punched out, actually were they ?).

I’m not hundred percent convinced by the Video, but saying that my parents once told me a Fat man comes down our Chimney on 25 of December an I believed that till I was 27 🥹.

I think the hunt for the answer goes on , but surely there must be a piece of paper out there with the answer, surly there was a gathering of minds or a meeting sometime in the past about “The bloody Nip”

Cheers Matt.

Originally Posted by Simplicity

I think the hunt for the answer goes on , but surely there must be a piece of paper out there with the answer, surly there was a gathering of minds or a meeting sometime in the past about “The bloody Nip”

Cheers Matt.

From post #3: Fundamentally the same, but made a little larger.

Disston 1912 publication. The Nib.png

Not a quote from ol' Henry himself as he died in in 1878. The above was quoted frequently in Disston publications, although this one was from 1912.

It is to my mind unequivocal.

Regards
Paul

In regards to pulling the saw right out the kerf John Bernard's book- which I think was written in 1916 has this to say about sawing.

"Care should be taken to avoid short jerky strokes. In the upward movement, the saw should be drawn up to within an inch or two go the point, and then in the downward stroke pressed with force against the wood which is being sawn, until the wood is within an inch or two of the end of the blade or very near the handle. By this means, nearly all edge of the saw is brought into play. In drawing the saw upwards, it should on no account be drawn though and out of the wood, for in delivery of the following down stroke the point may be driven with force against the wood and bent in one direction another, thus seriously jarring and injuring the saw"

Evidence of sorts that a contemporary of the era considered that withdrawal of saw an issue. The recommendation of one inch to the point leaves a 5% margin of error - and one would have varying saw lengths to deal with assuming at leat a panel saw and a ripsaw.

I may drop back into the antique bookstore, there was several books for late 19th century, some of them very detailed. I vaguely remember something else about sawing....

Martin

My own belief is that hand sawing should be undertaken in a smooth, controlled manner without exerting any significant pressure on the saw. It takes a sharp saw with some weight to it (a modern hard pointer won't do this) and a certain degree of discipline not to force the saw. If you are sawing in this manner, the combination of muscle memory and "calmness" will prevent you withdrawing the saw from the cut.

The length of the most common hand saw at 26" is also significant as unless you are above average size the natural, comfortable arm movement will restrict how far the saw can be moved for each movement. Sawing in this manner is less tiring for long cuts. Shorts sharp movements are to be avoided if possible.

Regards
Paul

Originally Posted by Bushmiller

From post #3: Fundamentally the same, but made a little larger.

Disston 1912 publication. The Nib.png

Not a quote from ol' Henry himself as he died in in 1878. The above was quoted frequently in Disston publications, although this one was from 1912.

It is to my mind unequivocal.

Regards
Paul

I think I stand corrected [emoji849] bigger.

Cheers Matt.

Paul,

A bit later is the chapter Mr Bernard mention something about not applying "more force than necessary". The push stroke is has higher resistance that the pull stroke as the teeth are bitting in but the magnitude of this change is not something easy to describe.

As to the length of the stroke, it does seem to rather long. May try out see what sort of stroke action may have been used.

What Paul said about sawing in a calm, controlled manner....

Pacing yourself is very important if you have a significant distance to saw (especially as one gets older ), and setting a nice, steady rhythm is the go. I often use a 20 inch panel saw instead of my 'full-size' saws and it requires a deliberate gear-change in my brain to adjust my stroke, but I'm usually using those in a confined space or on a small object so the adjustment is forced on me to some extent.

One of the irritating features of the plastic-handled saw-like objects with the blued teeth is that they are short - the longest commonly available is 600mm & you have to search the racks for that. That's only 50mm shorter than 26 inch saws, but I do notice the reduced length with the one I keep in my ute in case I come across something good beside the road that needs a bit of reduction to fit in the tray.

But perhaps the most irritating feature of them is the 'lifeless' feel of the un-tensioned, un-tapered blades. The ones I've had were ok at crosscutting (when new, & before I've decapitated the odd nail), but rip poorly despite their claimed 'universal' tooth pattern. However, I'm not going to cart my luverly 28" Disston rip around in the ute, and certainly wouldn't use it where there is any risk of unexpected hardware......

Cheers,

Definitely frustrating to hit a nail with your good handsaw/panel saw but one usually gets a warning when the sound changes. As long as you're paying attention!

Originally Posted by Bushmiller

... It troubles me a little that people jump onto You Tube and make statements as if they have inside knowledge. ...

With sincerest respect, Paul, anyone who is troubled by anything that they see on Boob Tube may have serious troubles.

Originally Posted by IanW

...But the clincher for me would be that there is no way I could see the damned nib without stronger specs!

I'd have to change between reading specs and driving specs mid-stroke.

Originally Posted by Mountain Ash

Definitely frustrating to hit a nail with your good handsaw/panel saw but one usually gets a warning when the sound changes. As long as you're paying attention!

Trouble is, that change in sound is the resigned sigh of your saw as it gives up the edges of all its teeth....

The TCT saw makes a "snick" as it slices the blighters in two, and as long as they're just regular mild steel nails, the tips suffer far less damage than my handsaw teeth do.

It's funny how I can go for years without hitting hardware, then all of a sudden, I'll have several "incidents" in a short space of time. This last lot were found deep in some jacaranda I was cutting up. My neighbor assured me it had never had a nail driven into it ever. Yeah, well, the tree must've picked them up & stabbed itself. I found several in time, by the telltale black oxide spots, but a few eluded me, unfortunately. I found one with a handsaw & the thicknesser, found a couple more, which is something I really hate. At least I was deliberately using old blades that needed replacing, just in case.......