Thread: Norris plane

Originally Posted by TobyC

Might want to watch this one, it looks bad but it will probably go high. It started at £4.99.

NORRIS PLANE - FOR RESTORATION | eBay

Toby

800 uk pounds this morning which does seem a bit high. Perhaps Peter can chip in with his knowledge.
Cheers,
Jim

Originally Posted by jimbur

800 uk pounds this morning which does seem a bit high.

From Questions and Answers on ebay for that plane

Hi just thought you should know why the price is high for a plane with damage Your father had a good plane! It is a Norris Mitre plane low production The last 2 have sold for over 11000.00 GBP Have a look on David Stanley auctions website Or just google Norris mitre plane recent sales You will see what it looked like before it was punished But it can be brought back! Hope this helps, You should add this to your questions,

£1,416.76

Toby

Drool-worthy stuff here: David Stanley Auctions of Antiques Tools & Scientific Instruments: Tools we have sold

and from Woodnet - where they are not convinced it is this:

Originally Posted by jimbur

800 uk pounds this morning which does seem a bit high. Perhaps Peter can chip in with his knowledge.
Cheers,
Jim

Jim,
I just went around the forums and read what was written about it.
Interesting opinions.
I would love to have got it into my hands to take a closer look.
That being said, I see enough in it it to get more than a little exited.
I've seen some special order planes from named makers.

This one has sold, so it IS worth that much, that is a certainty beyond question.

Not every collector has a mind to have the polished up crud seen on some auction sites, and this plane is obviously an unadulterated example of a plane that demands a VERY close inspection.
To dismiss it out of hand, like I have just read in some forum posts without having it in your hand is to consign any detail, or or clue it offers up as worthless....not something I'm prepared to do.
Just as an example, at the Fincham Organ Company auction I ran into the bloke who was the metal pipe maker, retired after many years. He told me that one of the little infill mitre planes I had just bought, a possibly unique Nelson from pre 1850 was the plane he was given to plane spotted metal to thickness,( the lead tin alloy used to make organ pipes ) when he first started as an apprentice.
Another plane surfaced a while ago, a skew mouth low angle smoother in the coffin shape with an open handle and bun...just like a Mathieson or Norris coffin shaped smoother. Now that one one was in pristine condition, and the discussion is whether it was made by either Norris or Mathieson. However, if it was in the condition of that Ebay Norris, it maybe would have been likewise dismissed as a user made plane.
So, special order planes for very obscure purposes are out there to be found and studied. Some of those trades...like planing the lead patterns for lace iron work, are still being researched.
I would love to see a very close picture of the front edge of the base.
Infill Planes marked "STEEL"
Interesting that some information like this that I just offered up has been scoffed at in the past....too many google experts... sadly not enough hands and eyes doing the research....and sometimes VERY deep pockets are needed.
That is one of the reasons why I'm in the process of disposing of my Stanley tool collection. I don't find one single tool in that lot to match what might have been offered in that Norris Plane. Since I'm looking to relocate in the next few months I didn't go for that one, but I see every dollar of value in that final price.


Regards,
Peter.

Thanks Peter. Perhaps it's just as well that very few have your knowledge otherwise prices really would be sky-high.
It does make you wonder though how many rare items end up in the scrap metal bin through lack of that knowledge.
Cheers,
Jim

Well that was great ride .....£1.4K+
I AM the seller of the plane . Admin can confirm this with my e-mail as it is the same as my E bay name .
It has been fun for me dealing with all the dealers , rougues and chancers. I had over 50 messages to deal with.
So many collectors / dealers were warning me about each other it became funny
I had one guy with 2 e bay accounts giving me conflicting information......
I dont have to tell you guys i know nothing about planes, but i do know about judging people .so although I turned down lots of "offers". One of them higher than the final price I think I did the right thing.Saying and paying are 2 different things .
Guys saying they were collectors and not dealers,just happens that their E bay account had 20+ collectors planes for sale ....
Other forums suggesting I'd kept it in a gorillas cage or used it as a wheel chock..
Anyway for all their comments im the one whos £1400 richer this morning.
Heres the strangest thing of all though, not one person asked me if I had anymore
As the austion went on I decided to do a bit of research and the plane type and size I have just sold couldnt be matched up exactly.
Of the other 5 I have there are 2 I cannot match again .Although none of them the same as this one
As I am moving In 18 months I will re appear with them then . Good thing is now i know who to be wary of
PLEASE NOTE: I AM NOT SUGGESTING ANY MEMBER OF THIS FORUM WOULD BEHAVE THE WAY MENTIONED EARLIER . THIS IS THE REASON I HAVE CHOSEN THIS SITE ONLY TO POST TO . YOU GUYS DO SOUND GENUINE

Hopefully I will stir up a bit more interest in 14 - 18 months

Regards Hermey

Congratulations on the sale.

What type of tradesperson was the original owner and can you shed some light on what work was done with it when he was alive.

Im afraid this isnt going to be the answer your looking for but here goes:

My Father whos garage the planes were in was nothing more than a bus driver who whilst being a lovely person would have struggled to put a shelf up.
However his father was connected with carpentry but only as a general builder after the war.
The most likely way he would have aquired this plane was through gambling . He was a hopless gambler. He was a very big gambler with very little money as were a lot of people after the war . Stories include him coming home one night with a fur coat , a radio and a dog.All his nights winnings ! On the other hand the family were conditioned to him walking in taking a household item and walking out . This is where members of the family are sure this old box of planes are from.

Originally Posted by hermey

Im afraid this isnt going to be the answer your looking for but here goes:

My Father whos garage the planes were in was nothing more than a bus driver who whilst being a lovely person would have struggled to put a shelf up.
However his father was connected with carpentry but only as a general builder after the war.
The most likely way he would have aquired this plane was through gambling . He was a hopless gambler. He was a very big gambler with very little money as were a lot of people after the war . Stories include him coming home one night with a fur coat , a radio and a dog.All his nights winnings ! On the other hand the family were conditioned to him walking in taking a household item and walking out . This is where members of the family are sure this old box of planes are from.

And how was he he punting with my Father-in -law in Leith - must have been busnet

Neil

Originally Posted by jimbur

Thanks Peter. Perhaps it's just as well that very few have your knowledge otherwise prices really would be sky-high.
It does make you wonder though how many rare items end up in the scrap metal bin through lack of that knowledge.
Cheers,
Jim

Jim,
There were enough people talking the price down on that plane, my guess is the interested parties were very happy with what they were hearing.
My cynical side makes me think the way that item was talked down before the end was not entirely a genuine effort to impart knowledge. And perhaps some might think that is fair game...I'm not in that camp.
I know a collector who listened to a dealer boast about selling a tool a few years ago, at well over the odds, to a fool...not realising he was talking to the actual poor fool who bought it.
Unless the auction item is a good laugh, and not one of serious interest, I try and have a policy of having no public comment to make before the sale is complete. There are a couple of forums that have that rule, and for a number of reasons I think it is a worthwhile rule. But as I am a member of this club, and here the rules are as they are, I have no problem living with them...and don't seek to change them. ( I didn't join an MG club to tell them a Jag is a better car)

Sadly, but not surprisingly, once a high dollar value item like that one comes along .... out come the rats with a gold tooth.
Most collectors (of anything) will tell the same story.
I've ( knowingly ) bought a Mathieson forgery from a well known tool dealer, and since I published a page on my website, I have talked with almost all the other well known tool dealers about it. They all offered support, and knew what has been going on and report more and worse that they know about.

I'm not at all surprised the seller was bombarded with questions and messages as he described. You need to have had a serious elbow in the ribs at a tool swap-meet as you approach a table with a bargain on it to understand how reason and good manners goes out the window when the eye is on the prize.

Regards,
Peter

Originally Posted by lightwood

You need to have had a serious elbow in the ribs at a tool swap-meet as you approach a table with a bargain on it to understand how reason and good manners goes out the window when the eye is on the prize.

Which is all the more remarkable compared to the very deeply moving generous spirit which is found in these fora day after day after day.

Thanks for info and commentary Peter, and to you too Hermey. Things are pretty sane around here - and there's a good deal of knowledge (and speculation) freely shared.

Nice sale.

Cheers,
Paul

Other forums suggesting I'd kept it in a gorillas cage or used it as a wheel chock..

My apologies Hermey,
Speaking of the plane's condition (not it's authenticity) on another forum, I am the one responsible for the "gorilla cage" comment. However I am also the one who posted the original threads about this plane on three different forums, including this one. I never questioned the planes authenticity, and I was surprised at some of the comments made by some of the self anointed "experts".
You know what they say about opinions, everybody's got one.

Toby

A fascinating view from Peter of the murkier edges of collecting. I suppose somewhere in the world a multi-billionaire sits in an underground bunker surrounded by stolen artwork and Norris planes.
Thanks Peter even if you have shattered some of my illusions.
Cheers,
Jim