Thread: Panel raising query

Its a balancing act, creep up on it slowly.
Easy if you are using a finely tuned hand plane.
Or you can cheat anf use a form sanding block with 100 grit.
Then go thought the grades to eliminate the sanding scores.


Cheers

Steve

I'm using a veritas skewed rabbet plane I made a fence for it can't remember what angle I said it to Derek writes it doesn't matter what angle it's set to. As creeping up on it the fence is set it's just a matter of planing in a straight and even line but that's the thing even though I get to my depth it's friggin too deep not matching the ends, but if I do meet the end the rebate in the wall isn't deep enough and neither have I met my depth mark as well to fit into the groove. If I wasn't trying to create that rebate on top I could simply do it with a no.4 like Paul sellers. But I am trying to get nice crisp lines and for everything else to match up.

It is a balancing act. Unfortunately you can't just rely on buying a plane and setting a depth stop and letting rip - unless you have lots of practice and have develloped the skill.

Sounds like you are inadvertantly canting the plane over - Do you hold the the front mushroom handle? To get better control of angle you need to have the front hand straddling the front rod/fence (sort of like holding the side front edge of a plane when edge jointing) and hold the fence 'flat'on the edge. If the plane was mine I'd take that knob off and get it out of the way.

Generally you need to watch the planned surface and adjust what you are doing to get the result you want. Start at the end furthest away and work back til you have a ful pass down the ege - but you must watch and stop before you got too far. Then if you have to, get you shoulder plane and take fine shavings to match it up where it needs it.

Yes I have done all that it's not my first rodeo but panel raising is, I have tried with the shoulder plane but unfortunately across the grain it tears as expected it would be the same result if I use a moulding plane across the grain. As for the handle I would never normally use it but in this instance I've discovered I have more control over the plane even though I am not getting the results I'm after I'm starting to wonder if along the edge I should bring the fence slightly in.

Has anybody made a panel raising effect with this plane and if so were you successful. To give you a better idea of the results I'm getting, across the grain it's as if the angle is lowest to the edges. That is why when I continue to plane the edges I end up going too far and making it too thin, but nearest to the top the angle is steeper. This is what's puzzling to me it's the same fence, same angle yet different results.

Originally Posted by section1

I'm using a veritas skewed rabbet plane I made a fence for it can't remember what angle I said it to Derek writes it doesn't matter what angle it's set to. As creeping up on it the fence is set it's just a matter of planing in a straight and even line but that's the thing even though I get to my depth it's friggin too deep not matching the ends, but if I do meet the end the rebate in the wall isn't deep enough and neither have I met my depth mark as well to fit into the groove. If I wasn't trying to create that rebate on top I could simply do it with a no.4 like Paul sellers. But I am trying to get nice crisp lines and for everything else to match up.

OK

my suggestion is that after planing both ends across the end grain you remove the depth stop from the plane.
having set the depth of the rebate field on the end grain, the long grain rebates fields only need to match the end grain rebate fields at the corners.
Plane the long grain sides, when the mitre runs from corner to corner, you are done.

also, try establishing the rebate field on all 4 sides, BEFORE attaching the angled fence


in response to your last post -- I've used the skewed Veritas and the straight Stanley #78 (I think that's the right number for Stanley's fillister plane)
The Veritas is neater across the grain, but the Stanley does an OK job -- and planing the field is not much different whichever plane (of the 2) you use

But I'm not using a depth stop at all and nor am I setting a rebate on the panel I'm trying to raise. Only on the underside have I set a rebate in order not to take too much material off the panel raising side but that didn't work either. Besides the depth stop setup with the angled fence cannot reach the bottom that is why I've moved it out of the way.

can I reply in more detail tomorrow evening?

Ian I always value your input and yes I'm off to bed as well

I'll leave it to the other Ian to help sort this out, but I'm struggling a bit to figure out exactly what the problem is. Apart from using the fence to keep the edges of the field straight, this is essentially an eyeball job. In working to keep the corners clean, I always end up with one that is a teeny bit thinner, but once installed in the frame, no-one is ever going to know, as long as the corners are straight & within a degree or two of 45.

However, I must confess that I usually do the grunt work of panel-raising (for straight-sided panels) on the table saw. I establish the field first, then take off the angled cuts, & clean up with my old 78, and maybe a lick or two with the shoulder-plane if the edges of the field need attention. The clean-up is all done by eye, with no stops or fences required. The problem with doing the whole job using a rebate plane, or any other square-sided plane, is that the edges of the field end up undercut or overcut, and not cleanly vertical. This problem is addressed with dedicated panel-raising planes, which have the blades shaped to match the angle of the panel edge, & some day, I intend to make a pair (you need a matched pair so you can work contrary grain in the right direction), but it's pretty low on the priority list, as I don't raise fielded panels every day of the week!

Cheers,

It would be nice to have dedicated planes for this type of work but even though I do have a table saw I must admit I refuse to use it for anything in fact it will go up for sale as I feel the use of such machinery impacts on the development of true hand skill. My goal is to be completely powerless in my workshop with the exception of a lathe as this is true hand work the fact that it's not foot powered does not diminish hand skill in anyway. Truly common sense has to prevail something many unplugged workshop don't seem to understand.

But not having the privledge of owning panel raising planes I must understand to complete this operation with the tools on hand and that being my veritas skewed rabbet plane. You hit the nail right on the head when you mentioned "The problem with doing the whole job using a rebate plane, or any other square-sided plane, is that the edges of the field end up undercut or overcut, and not cleanly vertical." that is the problem I'm facing so what is the solution to it besides owning a dedicated plane for the job.

Let me shed some possible light here I just may have found the solution, it is in my belief but it's just a theory here looking at the angle it seems that it's a bit too steep and that's why I end up undercutting giving me a sloppy fit and the mitres won't meet up. So I will make a new fence with a low angle not sure what degree yet but I think this just may fix the problem. Fingers crossed I will keep you guys updated on my find.

5.4° angle was the chosen I found to be most appealing and the results were it worked Having said that because of the low angle to reach the desired depth the lip (lack of a better word) it would create in the centre of the panel would be far too large. So to avoid that I had to rebate the top and bottom of the panel to fit snuggly into the groove and thanks to that it would seat 90° to the rail and stile, another words avoiding any slight twist the angle would otherwise create.

My next mission is to create another raised panel using the old angle without creating a lip on top as this new angle isn't steep enough I believe the only way to tackle this is as soon as a lip is being created to stop planing and move on to the other sides then finish off the top by planing it down.

I completely agree with you IanW a dedicated panel raising plane is a better option.

This is my final note on the subject as I feel it has lost some interest, maybe I have offended someone and I do apologise if that is the case it was never my intention. Ignore my previous post it seems that Derek was right after all the angle doesn't matter as I have returned to my original angle and have successfully raised the panel with the mitres meeting nicely at 45° from corner to corner.

I have switched from 3/4" radiata to 1" Hoop and stopped only a half a mil (32nd) to create that lip again not sure what you would call it. I have noticed if I went any deeper the plane would start to skip I believe this is due to undulating grain. I have also noticed whilst edge planing I am taking uneven passes, two contributing factors coud be at play here: I'm not pressing hard enough on the toe at the beginning of the cut or the blade isn't truly parallel to the sole but I'm more inclined to think the first.

Visually with that half a mm lip it's more appealing to me anyway. With a little more practice I can apply this panel effect to my on going project. I sincerely hope however frustrating and mundane this post may be that it will be of benefit to someone trying to raise a panel. Woodworking is a learning curve with plenty of practice and no matter how long you have been doing it there is always something new to learn and improve on.

Originally Posted by section1

This is my final note on the subject as I feel it has lost some interest, maybe I have offended someone and I do apologise if that is the case it was never my intention.

in no way have you offended me -- but generally 9 to 7 is when I'm at work...

attached is a sketch of how I suggest you approach the panel raising task.
The suggested technique is adapted from that suggested by Mat Bickford in his excellent book on using Hollows and Rounds.

Personally I think a field makes a raised panel.

I'm suggesting that the task be approached using a series of rebates which both guide the panes used for the raising but also establish depth stops.
If the rebates are cut on all 4 sides of a board, they can be stopped when the side depths match the depths already established across both ends.
As you plane down the "lands" it should be easy to tell by eye where more material needs to be removed to reach the final profile. Just remember that the only full length shaving you take might be the last one

Let us know how you get on.

Fielded panel.jpg