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  1. #16
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    Jan 2007
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    Katoomba NSW
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    It sounds like a heavily cambered blade that projects too far as you try to get a decent width shaving. Do you use a honing guide?
    As Paul says, we need photos
    Those were the droids I was looking for.
    https://autoblastgates.com.au

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  3. #17
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Victoria
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    3,191

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    One thing comes to mind. You mentioned that the wood was concave in parts. So in parts the blade might not be touching the wood and, if you adjust it so that it does, a fairly prominent blade will hit the high spots when you reach them. Just a thought.
    Cheers,
    Jim

  4. #18
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    3,096

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    Tiger,

    I think we still need to know if the blade is digging in, or if the grain is tearing out when you take a shaving.

    The blade digging in is symptomatic of a problem with the planes (or planes as you have used a few), whereas tearout in normal for tassie oak.

    From an awareness of your posts in the past, I'd reckon that you have given the planes a very good rehab. Tassie oak can have nasty interlocked grain and often the kd stuff is often more prone to 'brittle' grain that tears out even more readily.

    Soooo.... is the blade digging in, or is it normal KD TO tearout?

    If you go over the plane and check all the usual suspects (e.g. sharpen the blade, check the capiron is tight enough and mating well, that the lever cap is tightened properly, frog is firm and not able to rock, mouth is open just enough, blade projects just enough and that you finish adjusting the blade on the down movement of the adjustor (remove backlash))then give the board a swipe and see if you are feeling the blade dig in or the shaving tearing chunks out of the board.

    Also, are you getting this problem when you do a edge or the face of the board?

    (...sometime I oil, or wet down with hot water, a nasty tearing out board before planing to help minimise tearout)
    Cheers,
    Clinton

    "Use your third eye" - Watson

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/clinton_findlay/

  5. #19
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Eastern Suburbs Melbourne
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    2,568

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    Quote Originally Posted by Clinton1 View Post
    Tiger,

    I think we still need to know if the blade is digging in, or if the grain is tearing out when you take a shaving.
    Tried to take some photos but they don't really show much, so I had another go at planing. This time I tried a very light cut and it managed to not dig in but it would take ages to plane it straight at the size cut. I re-ground the plane blade to something a little straighter and even with careful honing I still got a slight camber which was unintentional but it must be my honing technique (I do use the Stanley honing jig and although it looks well made maybe it's inaccurate). I did find that if I really focused and concentrated on keeping the pressure on the rear tote that "dig-ins" were far less. That makes me think it's the sole but I did flatten it and the plane works beautifully on anything straight grained.

    Anyway in answer to the question is the blade digging in or is it tear-out, it was mostly digging in I'd have to say.

  6. #20
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    301

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    This vid is worth a watch if nothing else for tips on technique. Very cluey fella.

    Rob Cosman - How to Make a High Angle Blade - YouTube

    Craig.

  7. #21
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
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    Eastern Suburbs Melbourne
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    Thanks Craig very useful video, have a spare plane blade that's got back-bevel written all over it.

  8. #22
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Brisbane
    Posts
    800

    Default Plane digging in

    Hi Tiger, did you try planing all the surfaces of the board, ie the edges and the other face? If the blade is still grabbing on the edge, where the grain orientation will be different, it sounds like plane trouble. If it planes smoothly it's just a mongrel piece of wood.

    I use tassie oak a bit and don't love planing it.
    ...I'll just make the other bits smaller.

  9. #23
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    Nov 2004
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    Eastern Suburbs Melbourne
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    2,568

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    Quote Originally Posted by Berlin View Post
    Hi Tiger, did you try planing all the surfaces of the board, ie the edges and the other face? If the blade is still grabbing on the edge, where the grain orientation will be different, it sounds like plane trouble. If it planes smoothly it's just a mongrel piece of wood.

    I use tassie oak a bit and don't love planing it.
    Hi Berlin, didn't do the faces only the edges and they were both difficult.

  10. #24
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Perth
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    Higher cutting angles (from a back bevel), planing direction, etc - all of these are, I believe, blind alleys. They are not where the problem lies.

    When a plane digs in the simple reason is that the blade is extended too far. The question that must be asked is why is the blade extended too far even after apparently adjusting it to the correct depth? The answer is that the blade depth varies depending in the position of the plane on the (assuming flat) board. It varies because the plane sole is curved, which means that it will cut at the start of the board (when only the toe is registered) but not when the heel registers and lifts up the mouth and blade. So you adjust the blade depth with the plane in the centre of the board, but now it is unsupported and likely to chatter. And at the end of the board it will take a nice big bite! You start the next fresh cut, but the blade is too deep, so you back it off, and now the blade does not cut in the centre of the board again. And so it goes ...

    The question I have is how you flattened the sole of the plane. Did you do so on sandpaper on a flat surface? Or on a waterstone? Did you (inadvertently) rock the plane when flattening it on sandpaper, or did not flatten the waterstone frequently enough? Or, as I suspect, you did not flatten the sole over the mouth, stopping short.

    You described your blade as have a camber after honing on a Stanley guide. Frankly, this is impossible to achieve unless the surface you are sharpening on is out-of-flat. Is that the same surface you used for the plane?

    I doubt the problem lies with the Tassie Oak. This can be a very easy wood to plane - most of it is quarter sawn. Adding a back bevel to increase the cutting angle does nothing to alter a poor set up. Check the media and the plane sole for flatness before going on.

    Regards from Perth

    Derek
    Visit www.inthewoodshop.com for tutorials on constructing handtools, handtool reviews, and my trials and tribulations with furniture builds.

  11. #25
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    Apr 2001
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    Perth
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiger View Post
    Thanks Craig very useful video, have a spare plane blade that's got back-bevel written all over it.
    I would NEVER add a back bevel the way Rob Cosman has done in this video. He did so with a grinder, creating a wide back bevel (about 1/8"?).

    A back bevel can be done as a micro bevel, that is, just use a guide to create a .5mm wide bevel at the desired angle on a 1000 grit, and then hone this at the finishing grit (e.g. 16000, as in his case).

    The advantage of a micro back bevel is that you can remove it quickly when grinding/honung the primary bevel. The way Rob has done it here requires serious surgery to the blade to remove the back bevel. The actual size of the back bevel is irrelevant for it to work.

    Regards from Perth

    Derek
    Visit www.inthewoodshop.com for tutorials on constructing handtools, handtool reviews, and my trials and tribulations with furniture builds.

  12. #26
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    Nov 2004
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    Eastern Suburbs Melbourne
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    Thanks Derek for your comments, everything seems to be pointing to an non-flat sole but it has been flattened. I flattened the sole by going through some grades of wet and dry sandpaper stuck to some glass, I think 6mm thick from memory. The plane normally performs well on most timbers but I do recall having some trouble on thin (4 mm) highly figured material.

    The honing is done on diamond stones which seem flat to me. I also use waterstones but only after flattening them with a diamond stone. I suspect my honing technique is not even and I'm subconsciously pressing down one side more than the other.

    According to the rulers that I have which are not premium types the sole looks flat, I will get the glass and sandpaper out and see whether something has changed since I went through the sole flattening process. The worrying thing is that I now have 2 planes that might not have flat soles.

    Great point about the back bevel, a tiny bevel is much easier to create and then ground off if needed.

  13. #27
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
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    Sydney
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    Tiger do you have a feeler gauge set? Can you set the plane down on the glass and feel under neath it with the gauge to assess flatnees. This will only work if the glass is flat.
    If not the feeler gauges an A4 sheet of paper or cigarette paper would do.

    photos in these situations really do help.

  14. #28
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    May 2012
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    Woodstock (Cowra)
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    Quote Originally Posted by CMB View Post
    Should probably have elaborated re burr. We obviously don't want one on the finished edge. My way is a bit old school. I've never had fancy water stones or the like, just your run of the mill silicone carbide. I create a particular size burr and then remove it by stropping it on my hand. Not OHS freindly I know, and I wouldn't recommend others try it. I then give the blade a tiny tickle back on the stone and I'm away.

    Hope this clears that up a bit. Craig.
    That's how I was taught and have used the same technique for 40+ yrs with never a problem.

    Stropping on the hand has quit an effect on most clients, they cant bear to watch.......
    The person who never made a mistake never made anything

    Cheers
    Ray

  15. #29
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    Dec 2007
    Location
    Gravesend NSW
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    57
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    269

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    Hi Tiger

    Just a thought, Did you try a different plane? to verify it was the plane and not the tassie , assuming of course you have a spare


    Regards and luck
    Glenn
    Cheers
    Glenn




  16. #30
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    Mar 2013
    Location
    Melbourne
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    Quote Originally Posted by rwbuild View Post
    That's how I was taught and have used the same technique for 40+ yrs with never a problem.

    Stropping on the hand has quit an effect on most clients, they cant bear to watch.......
    I know exactly where your coming from. Would never teach half of my methods to your average apprentice or trainee these days though.

    Older ways were part of a complete methodology and it saddens me to see them dissapearing.

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