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  1. #46
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    Has there been a noticeable (or even measurable) increase in the friction strike planing in this experiment?

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  3. #47
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    The 30 micron is easier to push than the 60 micron.
    Innovations are those useful things that, by dint of chance, manage to survive the stupidity and destructive tendencies inherent in human nature.

  4. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by rob streeper View Post
    I think so too. Since I was unable to get a shaving much below 0.002" with the plane lapped to 60 microns it may mean that a smoother bottom makes for a better product in the end. How smooth is smooth enough? As I wrote above, we'll see...
    There's a second aspect - I don't think the smoothness needs to be a small micron finish necessarily, but rather the bits touching the wood need to have no burrs. A coarse finish without the burring removed will create some grip on the plane bottom. It would eventually go away with use.

    I think you'll find that a very fine finish allows you to get past wearing off the burrs ....without having to actually do it.

    If you set the cap iron on a double iron plane, you can negate some of these things because the iron will have more of a tendency to stay in the cut (no tearout, or negligible). The reason I think a heavier cut will introduce problems is because as soon as the cut quality suffers in spots, the thickness of the shaving removed will vary, and you'll be left with trouble.

    In more practical terms for someone using planes, if you dimension with planes and take a very brisk cut and it's not tearout free, you'll find that a few smoother shavings (that are sub-tearout size, regardless of the method used) will be needed before the smoother can make a uniform cut.

    The thinnest practical shavings that I can get from a smoothing plane without resorting to fiddling methods of sharpening are somewhere around 3-4 ten thousandths. But the surface has to already be flat for those to not be just a fiddle, and they're just a fiddle, anyway. Some woods release shavings of that thickness in something that looks more like a fishing net, and then you can get into really nutty things, like examining the texture of the shaving with different sharpening stones. It's not something I ever did as an experiment, just noticed the different cut qualities. I can get a very uniform edge off of a washita stone stropped on bare leather, and on something like cherry, get a shaving that's half a thousandth thick, but it's a very stringy feeling shaving. Synthetic abrasives that are very fine, or oil or natural stones carefully used can make the shaving a lot smoother, more like a piece of tape and less like a section of net.

    I'll bet a lot of people who would disagree with me on that kind of stuff end up sanding most of their work, anyway!!

  5. #49
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    Seems like this plane working on this bit of wood with the blade as I've sharpened it loses all of its composure with cuts of 0.002" or greater and it 'prefers' to cut minimal shavings. Let's see what additional lapping does.


    Innovations are those useful things that, by dint of chance, manage to survive the stupidity and destructive tendencies inherent in human nature.

  6. #50
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    This picture illustrates the points at which I'm taking measurements. The indicator tip is positioned at point 1,1. There are 21 measurement points 1,1 to 7,3 inclusive.

    Innovations are those useful things that, by dint of chance, manage to survive the stupidity and destructive tendencies inherent in human nature.

  7. #51
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    Following your last post, I have at long last realised that potentially I have a use for my surface plate. I picked up a 150mm thick laboratory grade plate some years back for a song and have never used it other than to store objects on: Criminal I know! I will have to put it to the test. One day .

    Thanks Rob for all your work on this exercise. I watch it avidly even though I only comprehend half of it and may not take advantage of the other half. There is some consolation for me knowing that the only way my planes can go isup.

    Regards
    Paul
    Bushmiller;

    "Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely!"

  8. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bushmiller View Post
    Following your last post, I have at long last realised that potentially I have a use for my surface plate. I picked up a 150mm thick laboratory grade plate some years back for a song and have never used it other than to store objects on: Criminal I know! I will have to put it to the test. One day .
    l
    You'll love using that surface plate, so many interesting accessories to go with it like the test indicator pictured above but there's also cylindrical squares, flatness gauges, optical flats, monochromatic lights, lapping plates and abrasives, gauge blocks, various gauge block accessories, sine bars, just to name a few...
    Innovations are those useful things that, by dint of chance, manage to survive the stupidity and destructive tendencies inherent in human nature.

  9. #53
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    Okay, here's the data for the plane lapped to 15 microns.
    Innovations are those useful things that, by dint of chance, manage to survive the stupidity and destructive tendencies inherent in human nature.

  10. #54
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    Here's how the sole of the plane looked before the latest round of lapping.




    An action shot.




    And after. Just took a few minutes. After the initial arduous flattening using 60 micron compound the subsequent stages of smoothing go pretty quickly.

    Innovations are those useful things that, by dint of chance, manage to survive the stupidity and destructive tendencies inherent in human nature.

  11. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by rob streeper View Post
    Here's how the sole of the plane looked before the latest round of lapping.




    An action shot.




    And after. Just took a few minutes. After the initial arduous flattening using 60 micron compound the subsequent stages of smoothing go pretty quickly.

    I thought it was prudent to always lap a plane assembled Rob,
    More a question of the way and why your doing
    Then to bring a petty point scoring.


    Cheers Matt,

  12. #56
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    Matt,

    If you're referring to the fact that I removed the blade and cap for lapping I did so for two reasons. First, to avoid any damage to the cutting edge and second so that I'd have two fewer parts to clean. Lapping is messy.

    Cheers, Rob
    Innovations are those useful things that, by dint of chance, manage to survive the stupidity and destructive tendencies inherent in human nature.

  13. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by rob streeper View Post
    Matt,

    If you're referring to the fact that I removed the blade and cap for lapping I did so for two reasons. First, to avoid any damage to the cutting edge and second so that I'd have two fewer parts to clean. Lapping is messy.

    Cheers, Rob
    Yep I was referring to the cap and blade missing!
    I was always under the impression it was best practice to leave these in place so the body of the plane was in a “state” it is when being used.

    Cheers Matt

  14. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simplicity View Post
    Yep I was referring to the cap and blade missing!
    I was always under the impression it was best practice to leave these in place so the body of the plane was in a “state” it is when being used.

    Cheers Matt
    So many questions to be answered in this area. I'm thinking that after I get this sole lapping phase done I'll lap the back of the blade and see what effect that has. Then I'll look at the blade bed and or mouth to see what I can learn.

    Sandvik scraper.JPG
    Innovations are those useful things that, by dint of chance, manage to survive the stupidity and destructive tendencies inherent in human nature.

  15. #59
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    To facilitate interpretation and discussion I've re-plotted the 15 micron data with reversal of the X axis.


    Innovations are those useful things that, by dint of chance, manage to survive the stupidity and destructive tendencies inherent in human nature.

  16. #60
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    I think what I'm seeing in the data is that the 15 micron lapped plane outperforms the 30 micron lapped plane in that the standard deviations of the cuts don't diverge until a cut depth of 0.004" is reached where the 30 micron plane loses consistency at 0.002" cut depth. Translated this implies that a smoother plane can take a heavier cut with consistency than can a less smooth plane with smoothness being measured on the scale of a few tens of microns. Next step lapping with 9 micron compound.
    Innovations are those useful things that, by dint of chance, manage to survive the stupidity and destructive tendencies inherent in human nature.

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