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Thread: Planes Cupboard
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12th December 2011, 08:57 AM #16
saw files
Thanks for that Ian. I have read Bob's great stuff - I originally came across it here:
Tools and Wood with Bob Smalser
I've been back to different articles (not just Bob's) and re-reading them months or more later - having maybe learned a bit more - it can be like I have never read this before, or get so much more out of it the second++ time.
I've been using the Disston ripsaw and a modern Irwin crosscut saw to build the bandsaw inoutfeed table I've been yukking on about (https://www.woodworkforums.com/f163/c...l-fool-144597/) and they've been working so well.
Having experienced that I'd definitely like to learn towards being able to create/maintain that sort of cutting ability. I know (assume) you can't resharpen the Irwin saws - and btw Bill's Machinery have hundreds of them ... kinda rusty, apparently ex-govt used for pvc pipe. $5ea I think.
I read with interest your post on the high quality files ... I have a bit of a collection of backsaws and want to eventually be able to do the right thing by them also.
Thanks,
Paul McGee
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12th December 2011, 09:01 AM #17
chamfer plane
SG ...
In your blog page here .. The Village Woodworker: December 2011
You have what might be a chamfer plane? It looks very interesting ... it is an infill plane?
Any chance you'd like to talk about it ?
Cheers,
Paul McGee
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12th December 2011, 10:09 AM #18
That IS a collection, Paul! I can count 18 handles there. Wouldn't 20 be a nicer round number?
You will run through at least 3 good files kicking that lot into tip-top shape. Depending on your eyesight (& mine needs extra aids, these days) sharpening small saws is actually easier than large ones, there are fewer teeth, and the irregularities of a less than perfect job aren't as great as they can be with larger teeth. Choose the couple of roughest-looking ones & have at 'em.
You can actually resurrect a hard-point saw, after cutting the hardened metal off (usually no deeper than a mm or two below the bottoms of the gullets, as evidenced by the blueing) and giving it a new set of teeth. I've done several small saws and been quite happy with the blade they yielded. The steel in them seems to be just regular saw steel, after all. Of course you can buy a new hardpoint for less than the cost of having a saw sharpened professionally, so it is only something a dedicated recycler would bother to do!
Cheers,IW
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12th December 2011, 01:06 PM #19
That little guy.
Well he is kind've an infill plane, but definitely home made. The base is nothing more than a piece of U shaped steel channel.
I did a little introduction to it here:
https://www.woodworkforums.com/f152/thats-plane-115823/
There were some knotty bits on the old pine edging and this little plane has a high angle bed on the blade so works well around them.
That funny little front handle is one I added and curved it forward so my forefinger would have something to rest on.
Cute huh!.... some old things are lovely
Warm still with the life of forgotten men who made them ........................D.H. Lawrence
https://thevillagewoodworker.blogspot.com/
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12th December 2011, 03:13 PM #20
"Rattus Corpus Delecti" - hahaha
Oh My Dog-father ... how big is it?
It looked to me like a normal infill plane in your photos ... I nearly fell over when I saw Wongdai's photo of his teeny-tiny plane dwarfed by a 9" plane.
I really like it - but I was picturing it at about 6"-8" long.
I don't have anything with a high bed angle - not above 50* certainly. Looks like it could be a project ... eventually
Thank you for that.
Paul McGee
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12th December 2011, 04:30 PM #21
... like a mad woman peeing
Dammit! You guys have got me looking now ... teeth ... medallions ...
I was looking at the D8 - the rust situation is improving at the front end - and I realised that the teeth are progressively spaced. 9 in 3.7mm at the back and 11 at the front - I guess that's an inch and a half.
Anyway ... amazing what you can find on the net.
I had pulled down my dad's (rip)saw which was sharpened sometime when he was alive ...he's been gone 25 years ... hmmm ... For a long time I thought that how it cut was how a saw cut and didn't think much about it. It is a Spear & Jackson - nothing flash - but I remembered I'd got a S&J recently with a rusted blade for basically nothing - so hey let's look at that one.
It is 4 tpi - I thought it might become my first attempt to sharpen - but the medallion was a brass bit on a red bit and I eventually decoded it out to:
"SPEAR & JACKSON GUARANTEED TOOL backed by 200 years sawmaking experience" and the inner medal "DIEU ET MON DROIT" (God and my right hand) - which I thought was a bit dramatic for a hand/panel saw.
So ... the net ...
Re:Sorby + Spear/Jackson Medallions - FireBoard
and
Comparative Dating by Style [Archive] - Saw Discussion Forums
and of course ...
https://www.woodworkforums.com/f152/a...n-saws-115512/
The 200 years puts the saw at 1960+ ... the handle shape means it isn't too recent ... and I haven't seen anything about the fancy motto.
There is this book referenced by Heavansabove:
Mfg. - Spear & Jackson Saw Makers - Toolemera.com
Which - finally - led me to understand the origin of the phrase "He who dies with the most tools, wins." See last pic. Way to go.
Cheers,
Paul McGee
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12th December 2011, 05:05 PM #22.... some old things are lovely
Warm still with the life of forgotten men who made them ........................D.H. Lawrence
https://thevillagewoodworker.blogspot.com/
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12th December 2011, 05:18 PM #23SENIOR MEMBER
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Sg, nice work on the plane storage and I love the blog post. Trade you a link to your blog for a link to mine?
I'm also very jealous of that $10 rip saw, I've spent months trawling second hand places and junk jards for a Disston rip and though I've come up with some nice panel saws (including a D-8) I haven't found one yet. Very happy to trade a nice panel if someone has an extra rip!
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12th December 2011, 05:24 PM #24.... some old things are lovely
Warm still with the life of forgotten men who made them ........................D.H. Lawrence
https://thevillagewoodworker.blogspot.com/
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12th December 2011, 05:34 PM #25SENIOR MEMBER
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Email me a picture and what you want for it please SG. If it's as good as that dovetail saw you sold me I'll be a happy man, and can finally get rid of the hardpoint saw I've had to use for ripping thus far.
Looking at your plane cabinet you have some nice looking plough planes. Do you prefer them to the metal ones or are they hiding somewhere else?
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12th December 2011, 05:46 PM #26
I don't use plough planes much at all.
The wooden ones are just too nice not to own I suppose and of course they feel fantastic in the hand.
The most used plough I have is a little Record 043. A very handy little plane.
They look like this one - not mine I hasten to add - mine isn't quite this fresh:
.... some old things are lovely
Warm still with the life of forgotten men who made them ........................D.H. Lawrence
https://thevillagewoodworker.blogspot.com/
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13th December 2011, 12:09 AM #27"DIEU ET MON DROIT" (God and my right hand) - which I thought was a bit dramatic for a hand/panel saw.
While one translation of the above motto has been "God and my right hand" this is generally considered to be a bit of an error by a single historian that has pervaded the literature.
"Dieu et mon droit" is more literally translated as "God and my right"
This is the personal motto of the English Monarch and has been officially so since Edward the third. It appears on the current royal coat of arms and is recorded as having been used as early as the time of Richard the first.
This in itself is a shortened version of a ceremonial phrase which translates as "God and my right shall me defend" - an affirmation of the divine right of the monarch, the motto, in its generally used shortened form, is taken as meaning "My divine right"
The word “Droit” has a double meaning of both “Law” and “Right" in French, which is the language in which this motto was spoken and later written as officially adopted (not Latin as some mistakenly suppose) This allows the further translation of "My divine law"
The other text in the coat of arms is the motto of the order of the garter (the highest order of british peerage) "Honni soit qui mal y pense" - "Spurned be the one who evil thinks", this is written on a representation of a garter behind the shield.
I'm not familiar with the history of Spear and Jackson, however it is possible that the firm may have been a supplier "by appointment" to the royal household. I'm not going to have time this week to look into it - however, I'm sure someone will chime in if they know. I do know that some S&J saws bear the royal coat of arms.
Cheers
Horaldic
(who has a small interest in heraldry)
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13th December 2011, 07:24 AM #28
taking stock
What was I saying about coming back to things with new eyes?
I went out and had a good look at my bunch ... there are only 5+2 that are in good working order.
The 2 have dovetail-type handles, short blades, crosscut teeth and look like you might imagine giving to a child to use. They are not very special I don't think.
Of the nice, working ones, one 16" steel-back is John Cockerill and a brass-back 14" one is S&J Mermaid brand. I was checking the spelling for Cockerill and found this:
https://www.woodworkforums.com/f152/j...l-saws-134181/
(which also has this link to handle templates)
Open Handle Templates - Saws Seen - Saw Scene - Saws I've Seen
One is Tyzack & Sons, 12" and stamped "The Property of the Army & Navy Canteen Board" That is some damn tough bread right there.
Of the others, one had a very very faint etch that I eventually made out as Stridsberg - which I had never heard of.
Searching around for "mermaid", "stridsberg" etc I came across these (no doubt familiar to many of you I'm guessing):
This has several other sharpening links also -
Disston saw rehabbing-Part 2-Sharpening, testing and adding to tool kit | Hand Tool Journey-A woodworking show of hands
Bad Axe Tool Works - Cleaning a Sawplate
Handsaw Blade Cleaning by Bob Sturgeon - Restoring vintage and antique woodworking tools - wkFineTools.com
Restoring a Handsaw by Frank Brickhouse
Not much on Stridsberg that I found ... but this newspaper 1950 was kinda interesting: (HP Gregory & Co.)
24 Jun 1950 - Advertising
Of the non-operational backsaws there are 2 Disstons, 2 nice Slack & Sellers, a Tyzack and a S&J.
I definitely have to get some good files and start practising.
Thanks - again - for everyone's help ... after I mis-directed SG's thread
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13th December 2011, 07:26 AM #29
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