Thread: (Ranty) New Two-Handed Rasp Design

G'day Luke

Weeelllll, it ain't exactly a completely new idea. It's a shorter variation of the Liogier Luthier's Lateral Rasp which you can see here (Laterale). They have been around for at least 4 years, IIRC (I had one at least 3 years ago for testing). What's new is incorporating a curved surface and only having a very short toothed area. The lateral rasp is used for shaping guitar (et al) necks. The idea seems to be that you sit in a chair with the neck between your legs, and shape away. Shedhand has one, so he could comment on their usefulness or not.

I think I can see how some people would like it, to be honest. The two handed grip would give very good balance and control, esp keeping it dead flat across the edge of a board. It strikes me that the comparison of "Spokeshave to bench plane" equals "this rasp to a normal rasp" is valid.

Having said that, I think the same can probably be achieved with a normal rasp, but as is often the case sometimes you need to use the tool to understand the benefits properly.

Some of the wording on his website needs some work though:
Reaching out to Noel Liogier, a master rasp maker in Lyon, France with four generations of experience, I asked if he could make us a set of two-handed rasps ranging from a coarse #9, a medium #6, to a fine #13.

Should read "a coarse #6, a medium #9, to a fine #13". And Liogier are not in Lyon, they are 84kms away near Lyon in Saint-Didier en Velay.

As far as the teeth being a problem for the secondary hand - that's a bit of a pussy cop out. Usually only with a #6 do I have to wear a glove on the hand that holds the front of the rasp, and maybe on a #9 if it's a long stint.

The point being that if you have to use a coarse rasp for an extended period.......then you should actually be using a tool appropriate for more rapid removal of waste........like a plane or a saw.....

Originally Posted by FenceFurniture

The point being that if you have to use a coarse rasp for an extended period.......then you should actually be using a tool appropriate for more rapid removal of waste........like a plane or a saw.....

I have a 6 and I agree. I don't find myself using it at all really. I find it a bit too grabby to use effectively, as well.

I see the point about keeping it square to the edge more easily than a normal rasp, but, with that said, even if you do use the rasp and it's dead square after roughing it down, you're still going to finish it with something, be it a spokeshave, file, sandpaper, scraper, etc., so by the time you've removed the rasp marks with that finishing tool, you could've just squared it during that process. I realize that's kind of arguing semantics. I'm just saying...

Different strokes, I guess. I'm sure people have chosen weirder ways to skin this cat.

It did occur to me that there could be some advantage to it on concave curves in that it's less likely to blow the grain out, given you would otherwise be making some cross-grain strokes. I still would use a spokeshave. I guess they're oft perceived as harder to use though.

Originally Posted by Luke Maddux

I have a 6 and I agree. I don't find myself using it at all really. I find it a bit too grabby to use effectively, as well.

Different strokes, I guess. I'm sure people have chosen weirder ways to skin this cat.

I use the #6 a fair bit actually, particularly for letting out holes where I don't have big enough forstner bit. It's not a rasp for delicate pussy strokes - it requires momentum and firm strokes.

Definitely a case of different strokes for different folks I reckon. One thing to note is that inside a saw handle (or any small enclosed space) a spokeshave is likely to take up a lot more air and therefore less manoeuvrable than a low profile rasp. A rasp can also be used at up to 90° to the usual direction (regardless of teeth orientation) for a finer finishing stroke to remove marks or fine amounts of wood. Just sayin'.....

I have a Liogier Luthiers double handles sapphire coated 11/14 rasp. I can make the following points.
STITCHING
Firstly, the stitching is neither along the length or across the width but is omni-directional.
In use, it does not create tearout on edges in my experience. I've used it for all kinds of jobs from shaping guitar necks, solid bodies made of a range of timbers hard and soft.
The finish achieved using the 14 cut requires sanding with not less than 180 grit.
The more I've used the rasp, the better it performs, which is what the maker claims.
A light tap on its edge dislodges any built up dust.
Though the rasp isn't concave on either side i have no problem shaping the curves of a guitar bodies including cut-aways because the stitching on both flat faces extends to the edges.
I use the 11 cut to remove any bandsaw roughing out cuts in a matter of minutes.
The only downside is its difficultto achieve flatness on material much wider than 50mm because the rasp is able to be flexed. Not a biggy on guitar work.
ERGONOMICS
Being a sufferer of severe osteoarthritis, it causes me a lot of pain and discomfort doing most things using one hand, particularly rasping for any length of time. Using two hands is infinitely more comfortable and stress free.
VALUE FOR MONEY
From memory i paid something like $120 for my rasp and its the best money i have ever spent on a hand tool. Its my goto for many tasks and i wouldnt be without it.
EFFECTIVENESS IN SHAPING
As i said earlier, i can remove a lot of waste very quickly with the 11 cut and the 14 cut is excellent for taking out the 11 cut marks. Using it on endgrain, either across or against the grain is a treat with little or no noticable tearout. Arrising an edge is accurate and controllable- leave the router idle.
All in all, the rasp is an excellent and versatile tool worth the expense.
By the way, I often reduce the flexing if i need to by gripping the stitched surface bare-handed. Its not uncomfortable at all and ive never even scratched my self.

Having said all that, without trying out one of the rasps the subject of Luke's thoughtful post, I'm not sure that they would be any improvement on my rasp. Possible for small work.

I do own a number of spokeshaves with various profiles but never been able to master them. So, here they sit gathering patina. 😕
Cheers
Sheddie

Originally Posted by Shedhand

Its not uncomfortable at all and i've never even scratched my self.

Having a bit of trouble with this bit Sheddie......we all know you're the forum's most accident prone member.... (well, apart from fletty, that is)

I won't bore you with my misadventure with a spring loaded tow ball coupler and my little pinky save to say it was very, very, very painful. It got infected. Shoulda had stitches. 🤕

Originally Posted by FenceFurniture

(well, apart from fletty, that is)

Fletty, nah a pretender to my crown...FAKE NEWS!

Just setting aside the accident prone for a moment and getting back on topic, the new Liogier rasp is a very attractive piece of gear.

However I understand Luke's question regarding it's usefulness particularly as the Unplugged Workshop chose to use the example of saw handles to promote it's worth. As someone who seems to make quite a few saw handles I am always on the lookout for ways to make the task easier. I don't see that this tool would help, although I would be glad of the opportunity to be proved wrong.

Regards
Paul

Back to Luke's "rant" ...

It's quite possible that this double handed rasp falls into the category of "gimmick" intended to spare the inexperienced, but then it might echo an ancient tool that fell by the way-side during the era of mass production.

I have a few Auriou hand-cut rasps (from Cut #9 through to #15), a F.Dick "imitation hand-cut" Cut #6* and a Nicholson #49 pattern makers.
The Nicholson is so coarse that I hardly ever use it.
The F.Dick is comparable to the Auriou #9, and the Auriou #15 is like using 180 grit paper, only quicker.
I've been sufficiently impressed by the Dick that I'm on the lookout for another.

I can see the attraction of reaching for a rasp (in preference to a spoke shave) to clean up a curved surface. In my hands, a shave always chatters horribly until nearly all the saw marks are gone, while a rasp seems to cut cleanly from the get-go. Having used the large Veritas shave only a week ago, I'm not that thrown by the two-handed grip this rasp requires.
Somewhere on you-Tube is a video of a craftsman using a bunch of rasps to shape a cabriole leg. From that video, two handed seems to be the normal grip for a rasp.



* For those interested, the F.Dick I have is part number 15592560S

The video re shaping the leg, I believe, is on Liogier's own website.
Looking at the site that Luke linked to, the photos of the rasp in use reminds me very much of the draw filing method used in metal work; its purpose being to produce a fine finish rather than remove heaps of material.
I'd be interested in a video to see the various grades in use.

I to would be interested in video if anyone as a link.

Cheers Matt


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https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Vu6gM1...ature=youtu.be

this is the link.

there are a number of links to various videos on the Liogier website but you have to dig for some.

Good discussion - I think between Luke & Brett, they've covered any aspect I could think of. I guess I'm firmly in Luke's camp, I can see no use whatever for this tool, it certainly wouldn't be one I'd reach for at all in making a saw handle. HOWEVER, I'm also firmly of the belief that what works for one doesn't work for all, so if this funny little gadget turns your crank, go for it! My old pot could make unwanted wood disappear with a hatchet, with a speed & finesse that I could never master - he didn't need no sissy rasps of any shape....

There are so many ways to achieve much the same result when working wood, & some are easier than others, but it depends so much on which direction you came from. For example, I remember (with embarrassment) how I just could not get a round-bottomed spokeshave to work for me until my then 5 or 6 year old son picked mine up & effortlessly started shaping the sword or whatever weapon it was he was fashioning. I'd concluded there was something wrong with it, or only a genius could manage it, but with a bit more perseverance, I was able to get it to work like he did.

But for now I think I'll stick with conventional rasps for curved work (as long as you accept that the Liogier handle-maker rasp is near enough to 'conventional')...

Cheers,