Thread: Replacing a dado plane nicker

Forgive my ignorance if this is way off, but what about simply knocking those ‘teeth’ on the nicker blade out a bit, so that there is 12mm between the points?

I could try do that, but when I sharpen it I imagine it will progressively get narrower again. Am I likely to need to sharpen it often?

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Caboose, is it the nicker or the blade that's out of whack? The blade looks to be quite a bit wider than the sole, and in the shot of it against the nicker, it looks like it flares toward the cutting edge. Have you measured them? Maybe it's the blade that's the ring-in, not the nicker?

It's hard to tell from the pics, but the nicker seems to be the width of the sole, so if the blade is > 1/2", then just bring that down to match the nicker, & the problem is solved. Even if the blade is actually 1/2" at present, it really doesn't matter all that much if you end up with a plane that cuts a trench slightly narrower than a nominal 1/2" - go metric & make it 12 mm.

One generally cuts the tenon to fit the housing, so the precise width of the trench is academic, in most cases.

Cheers,

I agree with Ian. I'd rather find a common meeting place for the parts. If the nicker is smallest, then reduce the other parts to match it. The dado is always narrower than the panel that fits it. The panel will receive rebates to create a tenon.

And if you really do want the dado to be wider by 0.5mm, then use a side rebate plane to enlarge it. That would aid in cleaning up edges as well.

Regards from Perth

Derek

If its the Blade that can be ground to make it work it'll be the easy way out . Like has been said it looks like the blade is the wide imposter.
Ive done a bit of re hardening and remaking with springs into tools and drill bits or chisel mortiser parts and made different purpose springs out of larger springs with success a number of times and the one thing I never solved was the time I tried making a rebate plane iron replacement out of another vintage plane iron . No matter what I did I couldn't get it to harden so I could temper it . I may have got a dud ? I would have been better off with a spring.
I was chasing an exact invisible repair/ replacement . And to get that on a plane that old like yours , the original blades have a heat welded section just back from the cutting edge that is visible , sometimes you have to clean up the blade to see it .
So I cut my replacement from a smoothing plane iron with the same heat welded cutting tool steel end.
something you may want to consider if you go to the trouble . Ive got two blades in a Spiers twin iron rebate now, one that cuts and the other is for looks until I make another .

Rob

Originally Posted by auscab

.....the one thing I never solved was the time I tried making a rebate plane iron replacement out of another vintage plane iron . No matter what I did I couldn't get it to harden so I could temper it . I may have got a dud ?.....

Funny you should bring that up, Rob. Just last week I made a blade from a very worn-down iron - a 2" Record blade out of a #5 or 4, probably pre-WW2 vintage, but I culdn't put an exact age on it. It was worn to about 15mm or so from the keyhole, so pretty much 'used up', but I reckoned I could get a couple of nice 1/2" dado/shoulder plane blades from it. It was surprisingly easy to cut & shape, and I noticed it was soft enough to file easily right to the cutting end. No probs, thought I, & I proceeded to harden it. Oil quench, water quench, air cool - none made the slightest difference; it stays dead soft. So did this blade have a tool steel end that's since been used up, leaving the mild steel body, or what?. I didn't think blades for run-of-the mill Bailey type planes were laminated or forge-welded in the 1920s & 30s?? Or is there some dark art to hardening some steels that I'm ignorant of???

Cheers,

Thanks all for the advice. It would be great to get this into good usable service again.

The plane is stamped Mathieson and Sons 1/2, and the cutter is stamped Mathieson and is nearly 1/2" in width. This is why I thought it was the original. Also, the wedge with the cutting iron is a very good fit (maybe even too tight). The cutting iron isn't splayed, however, the angle of the grind on the side is not quite uniform giving the appearance of it being splayed if you look from underside. The nicker is stamped Thos Ibbots. The width of the plane sole, however, is 10mm or thereabouts, and about 2mm narrower than the cutting iron. The sole is not quite uniform being slightly narrower than 10mm at the toe end due to wear. The patina on the plane looks even, so if it was shaved down to make a 3/8" plane then I would guess it was done a long time ago.

In these types of plane should the plane sole be exactly (or just slightly narrower) than the cutting iron (i.e. significantly closer than the current 2mm discrepancy)? I assume the nicking iron needs to be marginally wider than the cutting iron? So if I grind down the cutter the whole thing may well work properly. I may have to very slighty reduce the plane width (less than a mm) to get inside the nicker width.

Cheers,

Tim

Hmm, this is getting complex, Tim.

My take is that if it's stamped 1/2" then that's what it should be, give or take a couple of thou or three. They weren't into the sort of 3 decimal place precision back then that modern toolmakers are obsessed with (chisels for e.g., were hand-ground and could vary by up to a mm off nominal size). So given the blade is close to the stamped size, I think the evidence is pointing to the nicker being a ring-in on your plane. With regard to the nicker, I would want it to be exactly the same width as the cutter - I set nickers to scribe exactly where the edge of the blade will follow, not wider & certainly not less; that would render it pointless.

I just checked a 1/2" dado plane I have, by coincidence, also by Mathieson & sons, but mine has a skewed blade. The blade in mine is just a hair over 13mm by my dial calipers, which is 0.51 inches. The nicker is close to the same width, but a teeny bit less, which I think has been caused by a previous owner over-zealously cleaning up the sides after sharpening, since the ends of the outsides of the spurs slope slightly inwards. The sole is about a mm narrower than the blade & nicker, so it looks like yours is either worn or was deliberately narrowed for some reason.

I have never used mine seriously, there just hasn't been any call for it since I acquired it, so when I do use it on a job, I will have to set it up properly, straighten the outside of the nicker, & grind a smidgen off that slightly wide blade to match it with the nicker, and all should be well. I'm not sure what I'd do with your plane if it were mine, but given the sole width is way under 1/2", it would probably make sense to just bring the blade back to the nicker width. A slightly under-width sole won't affect the plane much, & as I said, the widths of the actual trench it cuts is nominal - there is nothing magical about a 1/2" - just cut the tenon to fit what you get...

Cheers,

Thanks Ian. I will give that a go. Not a great deal to loose. The iron is certainly something of an irregular shape. The more I look at it, the more I think it has undergone some modifications over it's life. Either that or some significant abuse. If it doesn't work out, at the very least it looks nice in my tool cabinet .

Hi Ian

What are your thoughts on hardening (red hot, then quench) the nicker without tempering it?

Regards from Perth

Derek

Originally Posted by IanW

So did this blade have a tool steel end that's since been used up, leaving the mild steel body, or what?. I didn't think blades for run-of-the mill Bailey type planes were laminated or forge-welded in the 1920s & 30s?? Or is there some dark art to hardening some steels that I'm ignorant of???

Cheers,

I just shrug my shoulders and give up trying to understand too much of it Ian . I find the more I read or look into it the more complex it can become . And I just hover around the basics. Ive always used scrounged steel mainly, from bins or hard rubbish throw away . I like grabbing spring material of course in different diameters which would come in handy if I needed a size close to that . I was laughing at myself a while back while I was grabbing the burnt out inards of a mattress . It was quite a length of spring material at a diameter I thought could come in handy and I don't have . It seemed funny to me to be grabbing such a pile of rubbish. I was saving it from the tip run .
What I would like to try is some 01 steel that I keep hearing about . I have a plane project half done and will have to use that for the blade I think . Ive just got to sort out where to buy some . A place that will post it would be good .

Rob

Originally Posted by The Caboose

Thanks all for the advice. It would be great to get this into good usable service again.


Tim

Have you got an intended project for the Dado plane Tim , Or are you just getting some joy out of restoring the tool back to working condition ?


Rob

Originally Posted by derekcohen

.....What are your thoughts on hardening (red hot, then quench) the nicker without tempering it? ...

Derek, I think you would need to be very careful hardening these nickers, the spurs are quite small bits of steel & might end up extremely brittle or cracked since they are going to cool super-fast compared with the bulkier bit of metal above them. I'm not very confident with hardening/tempering, but I think if I felt I had to harden a nicker, I'd grind the spurs back til they were stubs, harden & temper, then re-grind the spurs (carefully!). But you'd get far more reliable advice and more collective wisdom over on the metalwork forum, I think.....

Cheers,

Originally Posted by auscab

......What I would like to try is some 01 steel that I keep hearing about . I have a plane project half done and will have to use that for the blade I think . Ive just got to sort out where to buy some . A place that will post it would be good ....

Rob, try these people, I found them reasonable & easy to deal with. If you only want a little bit for a couple of narrow blades (1.5"), another forum member obtained some here .

Cheers,