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Thread: The Saw Report
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12th June 2012, 06:42 AM #31
You're sharp Toby
I don't know a thing about mitre saws ... although subconciously it did look a bit dumb-looking ... I put it down to the WS medallion and very ordinary handle.
But yep - it is obvious now. D23 sorta handle, top two nuts are on with the screw slot facing, and last nut is two inches from the blade!
Thanks,
Paul.
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12th June 2012 06:42 AM # ADSGoogle Adsense Advertisement
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12th June 2012, 06:51 AM #32
It is amazing what you can get in the US for $10-$40. Most of what I bought was sooooo cheap. It is a pity the shipping gets in the way for big items.
BTW - can highly recommend Shipito.com - which I learnt about here. It took
a while to get used to and get the best out of it, but very very good.
I consider this saw a study piece, and having followed dozens of auctions and read him in some forums I jumped at it. I've only looked at it a little, but the sharpening marks on the teeth seem very fine ... there will be photos.
I forgot the picture
Cheers,
Paul
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12th June 2012, 06:59 AM #33
Michael is one of us.
Toby
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12th June 2012, 01:29 PM #34Senior Member
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with each maker i have my favourites models, #16's from disston are among my favourites, but it looks like yours has been filed down a lot, I have a couple of saws like that that i still like to use for some jobs but the thin plate of the #16 at the tip might be a problem for it to be usefull.
how long is the blade on the #12 ? 26" (?) with 12ppi is a good get! its not easy to get the fine pitch in full(ish) length saws. it looks unusual though for a regular #12, hard to see on my screen but i cant see a nib and it looks like a straight back which is uncommon (not impossible) on a #12, maybe a transition saw before they changed to D-12 perhaps, or just made as a straight back, has a strange diagonal cut off at the heel as well, can you make out the etch at all?
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12th June 2012, 02:54 PM #35
Yes - well-filed. It makes sense to the article by Bob Smalser about shortening a similar saw (it is 26" atm).
It doesn't feel thin in the plate so I measured it ...
From toe to heel:
32 thou - 42 thou along the toothline,
27 thou - 35 thou along the back.
(The original toothline probably all about 42thou?)
The medallion is Disston-Phila so 1917-28.
The #12 - which you could almost call flimsy - is:
31 thou along the toothline.
22 thou - 29 thou along the back.
how long is the blade on the #12 ? 26" (?) with 12ppi is a good get! its not easy to get the fine pitch in full(ish) length saws. it looks unusual though for a regular #12, hard to see on my screen but i cant see a nib and it looks like a straight back which is uncommon (not impossible) on a #12, maybe a transition saw before they changed to D-12 perhaps, or just made as a straight back, has a strange diagonal cut off at the heel as well, can you make out the etch at all?
eBay Australia: Buy new & used fashion, electronics & home d
(I will copy some here for when the ebay gods bin it)
The blade is 27" long.
I took it out to cut the same 30mm jarrah ex-window sill that I tried it on before - but now having rained for several days it was jamming in the cut.
Some candle wax and a lower angle got it going fine, but it might be an impractical (lack of) set on it atm. I don't have the experience to tell.
I cut one side of the jarrah with the #16 (12ppi) and the other with the Simonds 371 (10ppi) for a comparison of the kerf and the finish surface.
The 371 cut very very easily - and is probably a bit spoilt by my technique I suspect.
I should have wet it a little - it is almost like it was planed.
Cheers,
Paul.
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12th June 2012, 05:27 PM #36Senior Member
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yeah Paul, along the tooth line it should be the same. i am no expert or saw historian/collector (though i have a few!), only what i have assumed over time with using them or filing them, but 42 thou is thicker than norm for a regular #16 (and yours would have been even thicker saw plate at original tooth line before filed down), if i can guess i think it must have started off as a #16 rip saw, they are often made from that thicker gauge steel. if its stiff enough (32 thou tip might not be, you'll have to test it, might be great!) it can be quite handy as a makeshift table saw, thats what i use some like that for, doesn't have to be specifically for tables, any curve will do
its probably lost some saw plate, if it was an inch bigger it would be a few thou more along the teeth, typically a full length #12 hand saw is a few thou thicker than that, a shorter #12 with fine tooth often are more like 31 thou. its my impression that they made the longer #12 hand saws from 20 gauge and the shorter or panel saws from 21 gauge steel (after grinding, hammering and polishing finishing up thinner than the original gauge), but its only a guess on my part, i havnt seen it written anywhere. of course it might be possible they made that one out of the thinner gauge used for the shorter hand saws or panel saws but if i had to guess i say its lost an inch or so of plate
cheers
chippy
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12th June 2012, 07:15 PM #37Senior Member
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by the way, you get a big slap on the wrist (tamed down for children watching ) for putting your saw down on concrete....i know, you were careful, hasnt been sharpened, but just dont do it! hear me! never ever! hehe
i can hear the poor saw crying from here, you should be shot haha
cheers
chippy
should be boiled in oil
dont put it down in dirt either!!!
bloody hell, some people!
wish i had a dollar for every time i went nuts at someone for putting a saw down in a bad place lol
just kidding
well sorta haha
still mumbling away
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12th June 2012, 07:37 PM #38
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12th June 2012, 07:56 PM #39Senior Member
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ah thank god (such relief, i can feel the pain lifting already) good to know your only associated with criminals LOL
45 saws in the living room! what a gem she is, you should think about marring that girl
thats almost a saw for every beany kid
perhaps you could make a gun style rack (saw till) for them, you wouldn't believe it but it wasnt that long ago and gun racks in the living room wernt uncommon
as guests want to touch them you can say be careful there dangerous
would look cool though, but that might be my weird tastes
cheers
chippy
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16th June 2012, 01:45 AM #40
Quick saw centrefold ...
(They're still out there ...)
1930's~E.C. ATKINS~SHEFFIELD SAW WORKS~PHENIX NO. 48 SHIP POINT~2 HANDSAWS~EUC~ | eBay
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16th June 2012, 10:50 AM #41
Bloody hell, Paul! Get back to the shed and fix up the 45 you just got! You're turning into the hand saw equivalent of the 'crazy cat lady'.
...I'll just make the other bits smaller.
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16th June 2012, 11:46 AM #42
There's always more 'still out there'. You haven't stopped to look at what you've got, much less sort them out. I still say pick one and do it right, then another, until they're all done. Then, if you want to be a collector, you need to figure out what you want to collect, and focus on that kind of saw. It seems like your buying everything you can get your hands on. This is not meant as negative criticism, in fact I applaud your enthusiasm, but you need to have some sort of plan. For now I would focus on what you have, and let the others run free for a while longer.
Toby
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16th June 2012, 02:22 PM #43
Perhaps you misunderstood me.
I mean clean, fresh, beautiful, just bought at the store looking saws.
If you restrict yourself to looking at ebay Oz in the saw department then you might understand my appreciation.
They're not for me - my saws - all my tools - are generally very much on the budget side ... but everyone can appreciate the quality if they are interested.
Ebay is fantastic for window shopping
You haven't stopped to look at what you've got, much less sort them out. I still say pick one and do it right, then another, until they're all done. Then, if you want to be a collector, you need to figure out what you want to collect, and focus on that kind of saw. It seems like your buying everything you can get your hands on. This is not meant as negative criticism, in fact I applaud your enthusiasm, but you need to have some sort of plan. For now I would focus on what you have, and let the others run free for a while longer.
Toby
The oldest are here for the appreciation and reverence that is inspired by holding a well-crafted tool that was made maybe 150 years ago and has lasted well enough to land in these nobbly little hands.
The experimental lab rats with thick plates and handles like squashed meat-pies were mostly already here, from family or a garage sale or the side of the road.
The others are a wonderous, on tap supply of physical information. You (I mean myself) cannot deeply know what a 20" saw looks and feels like, ditto a 26", a 28", until it is in front of you to be picked up and tested and examined and compared to others. You don't understand the difference between a 42 thou saw plate and a 32 thou until you hold them and use them. And you may never start to get a feel for how the sound of the plate varies across different makes and lengths and qualities of saw until you have heard them and held them in your hand.
I may have 40 or 50 years with these saws, so there's no hurry to do any particular thing to any of them, other than store them well and look after them. Sharpen them yes - as with my wooden, stanley, infill and japanese planes - but even then you don't want every one in the same condition.
There are saws here with zero set, some set widely, and at least one that is set significantly to one side and tries to cut a parabolic kerf There is 10ppi, 12ppi, 4ppi, 5, 5-1/2, ... rip and crosscut ... i want to be able to read a listing online and have a good approximate feel for how that saw might feel to use. And I want several of some saws so that I can sharpen them differently and compare them in parallel.
And there are a few saws that are already in working condition, as the standard against which I can judge the existing state of the others, and any attempt I make in sharpening them.
So ultimately I can't respond to the question about a 'collector' because I don't know in what manner you mean it. To me it suggests expensive gleaming tools, sometimes kept in nice but sterile glass cases. That won't be the case here - it is not about looks. These tools already look beautiful. What I want is to understand the universe of functional forms they are capable of taking on - and there's only about ... oh ... 40 or so years to do it in.
As always, I appreciate your input ... likewise all the brilliant information that comes across the screen via these fora.
Cheers,
Paul
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16th June 2012, 02:51 PM #44
Well said.
Toby
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13th July 2012, 05:46 PM #45
A taste of the drool-worthy in saws online ...
NICE EARLY DISSTON D-100 26" 8PT CROSSCUT SAW HAND SHARPENED | eBay
Disston 120 Acme 26" 7pt Crosscut | eBay
Can't work out the tpi on this one:
14k Yellow Gold On The Job Pendant Handyman 3d Polished Hand Saw Solid Charm | eBay
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