Thread: Restoring Carter plough plane

Originally Posted by IanW

Eddie, I agree that mild steel is a bit soft for something like a nicker. It would work ok, but would dull mighty quickly on our hard woods. I get away with using nails for points on marking gauges, but when I tried using flattened nails to make the cutters for cutting gauges, they just didn't cut the mustard, so to speak. HSS would havea much more durable edge, & you are unlikely to break in that application - there just isn't enough blade exposure, but it would certainly create some major problems for you in shaping it! Old saw plate should be a lot more manageable, & better than mild steel, it's tough, but you can file & drill it. Many old steel circular saw blades would be around the thickness you need. And as Toby says, it doesn't have to be the exact size to begin with - that's part of the challenge!

Cheers,

How would a piece of 16gauge ( 1.6 thickness ) stainless steel go? It would be soft enough to file and hard enough to stand up to scribing.
One should be able to pick up a offcut from any local stainless steel fabricator.
Malcolm Eaton.

Originally Posted by snafuspyramid

Malcolm, do you mean that you have a vintage Carter plough? If so, might you be able to post a pic for me?

IanW, I want to make new nickers because the plane is missing them - it came without one, and I (ahem) mislaid the other.

The blade needs to be a little over 1mm thick, ruling out hacksaw blades (the blade needs to be of a certain thickness to fit flush with the outside of the skate). However, jigsaw blades tend to be a good deal thicker - might these be a good bet? I have one marked HCS "high carbon steel", which is presumably a hardened tool steel similar to O1. I'm sure that would do the job well enough, and make drilling a lot easier.

Speaking of drilling, I intend to create a depression using a larger drill size (in order to recreate the "chamfer" shape in the original, as I don't have a countersink and don't want to buy one just for this job) and then use that to guide a smaller hole. I'd be inclined to simply use a HSS bit, a light touch, and some WD40 to reduce heat (as the hole is only 1mm). What do you think?

Another complication is that I need screws to attach the nickers. On the Stanley, the body of the plane itself is tapped, whereas on the Carter the nickers themselves were tapped. I don't have the bits and pieces I'd need to recreate this arrangement, so was planning on using a very small nut and bolt, shaped with a file. Something like this: Bolts Nuts Screws Online |bolts-screws-decking screws-rivets-stainless steel-socket head cap screws- 3mm diameter x 10mm long Button Head Cap Screw Black High Tensile..

Photo's attached. Please excuse shadows.
Cheers.

I used a piece from an old thicknesser blade to make the nicker on the dovetailer i made recently. I just checked and it's 1.5 mm. I can send you piece if you like.

Cheers
Matt

Matt, that would be great, I'll send you a PM. How did you cut and drill the material? By diamond filing grooves and snapping with pliers in a vice?

Malcolm, thanks for all the photos, that was very kind of you. I'm surprised to notice that the paint is quite thin - I built up the enamel enough to largely conceal the ragged casting surfaces, as I assumed they'd done the same...

Oh and did yours come with spare, short rods as well?

Originally Posted by snafuspyramid

Matt, that would be great, I'll send you a PM. How did you cut and drill the material? By diamond filing grooves and snapping with pliers in a vice?

Malcolm, thanks for all the photos, that was very kind of you. I'm surprised to notice that the paint is quite thin - I built up the enamel enough to largely conceal the ragged casting surfaces, as I assumed they'd done the same...

Oh and did yours come with spare, short rods as well?

Yes I did have the smaller rods, the only thing I cannot find is the depth gauge but this should not be a problem to make a new one.
It looks like I will have to referbish the unit prior to packing away as a future heirloom to be handed down with all my other tools.
Cheers.
Malcolm Eaton

Originally Posted by snafuspyramid

Matt, that would be great, I'll send you a PM. How did you cut and drill the material? By diamond filing grooves and snapping with pliers in a vice?

Hi Eddie, sorry for the delay but I've been on the road for the last few days but I'll get the blade in the mail today.

I cut it with 100mm angle grinder and then cut a slot vertically into the top so it could slide up and down. I shaped what needed shaping with wet-and-dry. I wouldn't be looking forward to trying to drill it though mine's not a thing of beauty so I hid it under a piece of brass. Cuts a treat and I doubt you'll need to sharpen it often.

Cheers
Matt

Sorry the blade hasn't come yet, either I leave the envelope at home or I leave it at work, either way it's elsewhere every time I pass a damn post pox.

Apologies, it is 'in the post'

Matt

I've finally had the chance to keep working on the beast.

In order to make the damn thing actually work, the skates needed to be filed to make them straight and level with one another; the outer skate was quite significantly higher than the left, resulting in uneven blade projection. I initially used a piece of abrasive paper on a granite plate - using the side of the plate as a reference surface. However, this quickly became tedious, so I decided to use the edge of the blade as a reference instead (having ensuring that it was sharpened perfectly square). To get the best reference, I used the widest blade I could lay my hands on - the 5/8". I then sighted down the length of the plane to determine on which side the blade was projecting, and filed down the opposite skate a little (having retracted the blade of course). I used a 12" second cut mill file. The work took a few minutes, checking frequently to ensure I hadn't taken too much and to check for flat.

This worked surprisingly well. I checked with a few different irons to ensure all was in order, them moved on the fence.

The problem with the fence on this plane - and on the Stanley - is that it is too narrow to be much use. So I drilled holes in the iron fence and screwed on a piece of MDF from the shop floor, shaped with a rasp, file and sandpaper and spray painted black. I plan to replace this with a decent piece of timber once one presents itself, but this is enough for testing. Looks mean (see photograph).

The plane now takes nice, even shavings in radiata pine. Very satisfying indeed after all this work!

However, I've realised that the iron is not perfectly square with the fence, because the face of the metal fence isn't quite flat. (Photograph). I honestly can't think of any other way in which Carter could have screwed up this tool, but there it is again. I'll have a crack at it with a file tomorrow and see what can be done about the situation. It doesn't seem terribly important at this stage, but I'd prefer to fix it anyway.

Although the shavings are nice, I notice that the plane tends to leave rather rough edges to the grooves it makes in pine, which is stringy and resinous. I can't imagine this being so much of an issue in a mightier timber, but I am nevertheless wondering whether this is a situation where the nickers might help. I'll have to experiment with my proper Stanley version - with extant nickers - to see how things differ. If they do, then I'll start making replacement nickers with the piece of HSS Berlin very kindly sent me for the purpose.

Quite a long time between posts but still good to see it coming along. Just one question thou, could you modify the added wooden fence to compensate for the metal one being out?

Originally Posted by Christos

Quite a long time between posts but still good to see it coming along. Just one question thou, could you modify the added wooden fence to compensate for the metal one being out?

Yes I could, and I probably will - it looks like it will be devilishly tricky to file or lap the metal one at the right angle. My only reason for preferring to file the metal is that, that way, I can use the short arms. These aren't long enough to use with the auxiliary fence, except when rebating, but they give the plane a much nicer balance and afford a more comfortable grip.

I've been giving more thought to making new nickers. I'd initially planned to use the HSS Berlin posted to me, but I'm starting to think that I'll have an easier time using the blade for a #4 junker I picked up the other day - it's much thinner and should be easier to work. I won't be able to use an angle grinder for fear of drawing the temper, though. I just have to try and remember what I did with those diamond files...

I don't see the need for the nickers to be in the original shape (which is rather like a pear shape) - it would be much less work to have a simpler scriber in the shape of a marking knife. I can file open the receptacle on the plane skate to accept this shape.

I propose to cut out a strip from the old Stanley plane iron. After that, I'll drill the piece, then use the bench grinder to form the bevels and establish the correct dimensions. I'll leave it overlong to make it easier to work and cut it to length when I'm finished.

I'm concerned about how much work it will take to reduce the thickness of the strip. Is there any way to avoid this problem?

What sort of cutter should I use for the steel? Can I use an angle grinder, and if so, with what sort of cutter? Can I use a regular HSS twist bit for drilling?

Can't u just use a hacksaw followed by the bench grinder?

Interesting thread. I've got the same plane, also without nickers. Although my adjuster lever has had it, how is urs?

Originally Posted by snafuspyramid

What sort of cutter should I use for the steel? Can I use an angle grinder, and if so, with what sort of cutter? Can I use a regular HSS twist bit for drilling?

Eddie, you may well find the old plane blade will cut with a hacksaw - most are not nearly as hard as modern HSS blades. Test it with a file - if you can file it, a (decent) hacksaw blade will cut it. If that's not a goer, I cut small, thin pieces of hard steel with 1mm cutoff wheel (available in any hardware store) in an angle grinder. If you clamp the 'good' part between two pieces of steel, it gives you a straight edge to work against, and acts as a heat-sink to prevent over-heating. The trick is to cut it quickly & cleanly (do a practice run on some scrap), & you'll find you barely get any blueing of the edge, even on the side that isn't 'protected'.

If your chosen metal is file-able, then it should be easy enough to file & lap to the desired thickness, but if it's as hard as HSS, grinding & lapping is the only alternative, & that can be very tedious to do manually. An advantage in using the piece of HSS is that it is much harder to ruin HSS when grinding - it can become very hot without softening. The worst that can happen is that you will embrittle the edges if you over-cook them. Dress the stone frequently to keep it cutting freely, & use a light touch. It is recommend NOT to dunk HSS when grinding because it induces micro-cracks - just let it cool in air.

Drilling holes should be no big problem if the metal is file-able - use a decent quality twist drill & kero as a cutting fluid & it should go through easily enough. Clamping small parts can present a problem if you don't own a machinist's vise, but it's esential when drilling metal, so drill your holes before reducing the size if you have minimal gear. If you elect to use the HSS, then ordinary drills are out, you'll need carbide or diamond to punch holes in that.....

Cheers,

Might be of interest ... Toby linked to this guy on the Try-Squares ...

He says you can also use an actual chisel ...

Buying good tools cheap #4 – Plough plane – Paul Sellers
Buying good tools cheap #5 – More Ploughs – Paul Sellers
Buying good tools cheap #6 – Deeper ploughing – Paul Sellers