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Thread: The Simonds Saw Story
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21st October 2017, 03:57 PM #286
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21st October 2017, 04:16 PM #287
You know what the big red N stenciled on the helmets of the University of Nebraska football (American) team players stands for?
Innovations are those useful things that, by dint of chance, manage to survive the stupidity and destructive tendencies inherent in human nature.
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21st October 2017, 06:27 PM #288
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21st October 2017, 07:16 PM #289
Just back on the bastardised saws, I do have the advantage of several catalogues, which are an excellent reference. Having said that, and so I dispell the hollier than thou image, I have to tell you that I made an identification stuff up just recently.
I purchased this saw, a No.7 from the Crescent Moon and Star era:
Simonds No.7 wrong medallion.jpgSimonds No.7 wrong medallion plate.jpg
The seller said that the etch was faint but completely visible. He had several pix but none showed the etch. Unfortunately, it transpired the etch was from a later era: A mis-match! Quite a nice saw and I have the correct medallion for it, but I would not have purchased it if I had known as I was chasing a saw from the early Crescent Moon and Star period.
I did enter into correspondence with the seller. I believe he had no idea there was anything wrong with it. Also I could be afford to be philosophical as I paid a fraction of the price of the No.10 mentioned before. You can't win "em all.
Regards
PaulBushmiller;
"Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely!"
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22nd October 2017, 04:13 AM #290
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22nd October 2017, 09:51 AM #291
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22nd October 2017, 10:02 AM #292
I am surmising that the demand for Simonds saws is on the up as this would be an explanation for the increase in saws that are not quite right. Here is another one spotted on Ebay:
Simonds No.72 wrong'un.jpgSimonds No.72 wrong'un etch.jpg
Of course the etch is pretty difficult to fudge in practical terms so it is reasonable to go with that being genuine. This is a Simonds No.72 but the handle is a replacement without wheat carving on the grip and judging by the crudeness, particularly under the hand guard, a home made one. It is damaged too. Also there is a bit of metal adjustment where the saw plate meets the lower guard. Not a very attractive proposition at US$46.
Simonds No.72 wrong'un handle.jpg
https://www.ebay.com/itm/ANTIQUE-THE...19.m1438.l2649
Regards
PaulBushmiller;
"Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely!"
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29th November 2017, 05:36 PM #293
Hi Paul,
As the resident expert on Simonds saws, what type of Simonds do you think I have here? It’s a 20” crosscut panel saw that arrived at my house yesterday. I was hoping the etch would tell me (like a Disston) but it wasn’t to be. As far as I can tell, the handle is beech.
F97667F2-3A94-4518-B640-A35A07303AD1.jpgB6801DF2-1C08-407C-8603-06F93B641928.jpeg3B27F4BA-A2EC-4145-96F5-BFBDDFCEDF69.jpeg35390BE2-799C-45FB-9F66-44F312F33E37.jpeg8AC9F59D-9A6C-41DB-8B3B-E7883B5900A2.jpeg
Many thanks,
Zac
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29th November 2017, 07:02 PM #294
No.72
Bushmiller;
"Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely!"
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29th November 2017, 07:15 PM #295
Zac
Apologies for the previous post. I just had a dramatic moment.
It is either a No.72 or a No.372. In the last pic I can see the start of the third etch, which only appeared on the Blue Ribbon models. Carving on the grip only makes it a 70 series and the skewback limits it to the 72 or 372. It could be either and is more difficult to tell with a smaller size panel saw. It is definitely a panel saw with only four saw screws instead of five with the full size hand saws.
I am still leaning towards the No.72 as the toe seems to be a little more hefty, but it could also be the angle at which the pic is taken. Now you know what to look for, you may be able to decipher something as even in your pix I can see the "No." : Just not the numeral.
I have a question for you now. How do you get Simonds saws to just show up at your house. Try as I might I have not mastered that technique. I have even considered asking my Buddhist daughter whether meditation would assist me in persuading Simonds saws (particularly the rare models ) to float across the Pacific on a wave of ether to my house.
Regards
Paul
PS: Nice arrivalBushmiller;
"Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely!"
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29th November 2017, 08:05 PM #296
Hi Paul,
Thanks for your help identifying this saw. Now that you mention it, I think that I can make out a No 72 underneath the main etch.
EB7566D7-A845-419E-A1F7-9EA67206A7BE.jpeg
It does have a third etch, just visible.
A7606C3B-F4BA-4DEC-A6CA-4314BE2D1D67.jpeg
As to making them them appear at your house, a combination of getting paid, having a drink on a Friday arvo and opening up EBay ‘just for a browse’ will certainly improve the odds of this happening.
To make myself feel better I did sell two saws to make room for the newest addition.
Thanks again,
Zac.
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29th November 2017, 08:42 PM #297
Thanks Zac
I see where I am going wrong now. I haven't been drinking on a Friday. (Makes note to himself: Friday is inebriation day.)
I am not so sold on selling saws to make room . Actually I am.
Regards
PaulBushmiller;
"Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely!"
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11th January 2018, 02:10 PM #298
Yesterday I received three Simonds saws, which Luke Maddux very kindly forwarded from the States. That exercise was not without some trouble as they were rejected once. That was because of some included kitchen knives apparently, but Luke took advice with USPS and the parcel was resent with no changes. It not only arrived, but came here in record time according to Luke: Not quite sure when it was sent.
The first saw is the bottom of the line back saw, which I had been chasing. The Babbitt No.99. The last picture is my No.97 Simonds back saw of the same 12" size just for comparison.
P1030335.JPGP1030322.JPGP1030320.JPGP1030336.JPG
A price comparison for 12" models in 1910 is:
Simonds No.96 (Apple handle) $1.50
Simonds No.97 (Beech handle) $1.16
Bay State No.98 (Beech handle) $1.00
Babbitt No.99 (Beech handle) $0.75
The next saw is an early No.4 panel saw. I say early as it only has the simple Simonds banner without shading and extra "flourish." By my reckoning this makes it pre 1910. Not in bad nick at all for a saw around 110 years old.
P1030323.JPGP1030328.JPGP1030325.JPGP1030326.JPGP1030327.JPG
The third saw is the No.7 to which i referred in post #289. It does indeed seem to have the wrong medallion as the etch and medallion do not match. I think this saw is between 1905 and 1909 because again there is only a single etch. There is an outside possibility that the first saws when the etch was changed used up old Crescent Moon and Star medallions, but probably not. Just me attempting to console myself: Not that I need much consoling as I still like this saw. It looks good (to my eyes) and has a rich look to the handle. Normally I regard the sweat and grime that so many refer to as "patina" as a euphemisim, but not in this instance. I think the plate will clean up well, although I am going to have to be careful over the already faint etch region.
P1030329.JPGP1030331.JPGP1030332.JPG
I did look closely at the handle area as I thought I could seem some evidence of a replacement handle as there are two distinct shades of steel in that region.
P1030333.JPGP1030334.JPG
It is a possibility so I took off the handle
P1030337.JPGP1030338.JPG
but it looks good there with no extra tell tale holes. I don't know the significance of the the number "1." I have not been able to work out what the numbers mean, but most likely some grading indication for the workers in the plant. The early No.7 saws had wheat carving on the flat as well as the grip.Bushmiller;
"Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely!"
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11th January 2018, 02:32 PM #299
This is the way I narrowed down the timelines from the number of etches. These pix are from the 1905, 1907 and 1910 catalogues respectively. Prior to 1905 the Crescent Moon and Star was the Simonds signature, but still with only a single etch.
P1030339.JPGP1030340.JPGP1030341.JPG
This is a better shot of the second " Made of Simonds Steel" etch that features on the majority of their hand, rip and panel saws from 1910 onwards.
Simonds steel etch.JPG
Regards
PaulBushmiller;
"Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely!"
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12th January 2018, 10:34 AM #300
Just re-reading my previous post (#298) I realise I did not emphasise that the No.4 only had a single etch, which was why I place it before 1910. I thought it but forgot to write it, although readers might have deduced this from subsequent comment on the No.7 referring to the single etch again.
The other point of interest on the Babbitt saw is that it only has two saw screws (the No.97 pictured has three). Most back saws of this 12" size would have sported three screws. In fact the handle on this saw is loose and the two screws only is testimony to the budget aspect of the saw. It will need some attention, although there is little else wrong with it. It even has retained some of the original (presumeably) bluing on the back: I don't often see that.
Regards
PaulBushmiller;
"Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely!"
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