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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Camden, NSW
    Age
    74
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    3,576

    Default Something NEW for KNEW?

    Like many others in Oz, I have invested in a Knew Concepts coping saw. Knew Concept saws are a family of fret and coping saws that overcome the age old problem of insufficient blade tension by very very clever designs of rigid frames in both aluminium and titanium.
    After using it for a while, I realised that the handle was too small for me and consequently, I didn't get enough control to let me cut very close to the line when removing waste from dovetails and particularly when holding the saw horizontally. Also, because of the small handle being very (too?) light, the saw feels unbalanced when using it horizontally on dovetails.
    I realise that the saw is sold not just for woodwork but also for other crafts such as jewellery making and, in that craft, there is a higher predominance of females, presumably with smaller hands? Also, most jewellery makers use the saw with the blade vertically and cutting through a bird mouth jig.
    Unbeknown to me, Pacman was having similar issues and had done quite a bit of online research that showed that it was a well known, and discussed, issue in USA. As a result of this, the designer and manufacturer had replied that he was unable/unwilling to correct the issue and so there are a couple of after-market manufacturers making replacement, larger and heavier handles made from 'exotic' timbers. There are also a few designs floating around online for public use that Pacman had found, so I thought, while MY hand is out of action, I'd have a go at it!
    Well Sol, oils ain't oils....
    First step was to line up a brass turner DONE
    Remove the 'old' handle by drilling into the spun steel (crappy) ferrule and tapping out the rolled steel pin...

    IMG_6844.jpg IMG_6852.jpg

    ..... only to find that, unlike what I thought I had read online, the circular hole in the handle engages with the aluminium spindle that holds the blade by <2mm in length and that the handle IS located by being a force fit onto the red aluminium tang.

    So, as I can't use the saw for a while anyway, I have time to THINK?

    There are 2 options;
    • One is to make a new, LONGER, replacement blade holding spindle (the silver bit!) and fit the new handle to that, which is mechanically feasible AND ELEGANT but probably should be reserved for a complete saw redesign one day
    • The other is to make a new (brass?) ferrule that is shaped and slotted to allow it to fit further onto the spindle and to fix the tang inside by mechanical means or more likely, back fill with epoxy before fitting a new, bigger turned handle, to the ferrule?

    The second option is underway

    fletty
    a rock is an obsolete tool ......... until you don’t have a hammer!

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  3. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    San Antonio, Texas, USA
    Posts
    3,070

    Default

    I bought a set of these this year because a new seller offering the frames at a substantial discount on the list has entered the market https://www.fdjtool.com/tools/saws/ They're running a 10% discount on saws and blades at the moment . The aftermarket replacement handles are very expensive for what they are IMO.

    Knew concepts saw handles.JPG


    The coping saw has a larger and more comfortable handle and I've been planning to make similar size replacements for my fret saws. Looking forward to how yours turns out.

    Regards,
    Rob
    Innovations are those useful things that, by dint of chance, manage to survive the stupidity and destructive tendencies inherent in human nature.

  4. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Perth
    Posts
    10,810

    Default

    Fletty, I wrote about this some years ago. Indeed, I suggested to Lee (Marshall) that he offer a larger handle.

    I made my own. Remove the rivet and epoxy on your own handle .. is the easy way (you can always soften epoxy with heat).

    Comments: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolRev...geFretsaw.html



    Regards from Perth

    Derek
    Visit www.inthewoodshop.com for tutorials on constructing handtools, handtool reviews, and my trials and tribulations with furniture builds.

  5. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Melbourne, Vic, Australia
    Posts
    1,255

    Default

    I made my own handle too from some of Maplemans blackwood and turned up a brass ferrule.

    I prefer it over the stock one.
    20170619_071942.jpg

    Old pic from before i machined up a new aluminium part for the barrel adjuster that I broke whilst fitting the handle!

    Cheers, Dom

  6. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    Canberra
    Posts
    5,124

    Default

    Hi Fletty, and others,

    I must be thick, for I looked at the photos and can't really see the problem with fitting a new handle. I looked at mine and though I didn't remove the pin, can't see why a new force fit handle presents a problem.

    Does the frame interact with it in some manner?

    A longer heavier handle would be nice. How odd the manufacturer wont supply a new steel ferrule to those who wish to turn their own handles. Those little after market touches take a great company into an awesome one.

    BTW, is everyone photographing their tools on their latest and greatest box lids or unused display-quality chopping boards, or are they simply showing off their amazing work benches

  7. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Sydney Upper North Shore
    Posts
    4,464

    Default

    A lovely piece of equipment. For those who own one, what is the consensus on options.
    a) Screw or lever adjustment
    b) fixed or swivel blade

    Thanks

  8. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Melbourne, Vic, Australia
    Posts
    1,255

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lappa View Post
    A lovely piece of equipment. For those who own one, what is the consensus on options.
    a) Screw or lever adjustment
    b) fixed or swivel blade

    Thanks
    I really like the swivel blade and think it's very handy for uses such as cutting out dovetail waste on wider boards or when a board is only protruding a small amount over the vise jaws and you want to cut out a curve.

    The lever tension is good too for making quick adjustments to blade tension IMO.

  9. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Camden, NSW
    Age
    74
    Posts
    3,576

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by woodPixel View Post
    ...........can't really see the problem with fitting a new handle. I looked at mine and though I didn't remove the pin, can't see why a new force fit handle presents a problem.

    Does the frame interact with it in some manner?
    Hi WP, the issue (it really isn't a problem ), is that the current handle doesn't actually fit over the cylindrical spindle, it is only located by being a force fit over the rectangular tang on the frame. I wanted to use a turned brass ferrule to add weight and that makes a forced fit onto a rectangular tang a bit difficult. So, by slotting the front of the ferrule, the new turned brass ferrule WILL fit over the cylinder and that will then allow me to hold it in place with a set screw and back fill it with epoxy to 'grip' on to the rectangular tang?

    fletty
    a rock is an obsolete tool ......... until you don’t have a hammer!

  10. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    1,501

    Default

    Can you just increase the internal diameter of the new ferrule so that it is larger than the alloy tang and just notch the wood inside? Make the notch slightly small and drive the handle on tight, compressing the wood and reducing play, before putting the pin through.

  11. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Camden, NSW
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by hiroller View Post
    Can you just increase the internal diameter of the new ferrule so that it is larger than the alloy tang and just notch the wood inside? Make the notch slightly small and drive the handle on tight, compressing the wood and reducing play, before putting the pin through.
    Hi hr, yes, that would be an elegant solution but I've got my heart set on a long brass ferrule to increase the 'heft'. If that ends up too 'hefty', which is quite possible, I'll probably shorten the brass ferrule, and bore a smaller hole in the turned timber handle to be a forced fit on the rectangular tang. The diameter of the spindle is 11.1mm (7/16") and the diameter across the corners of the tang is 10.5mm so it seems to me that the original design was force-fit on the tang and tap it on until the handle is against the end of the spindle and not over it?
    a rock is an obsolete tool ......... until you don’t have a hammer!

  12. #11
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Perth
    Posts
    10,810

    Default

    I am attaching a PDF from Elkhead Tools on replacing a handle.

    Frankly, all I did was make an oversize hole (large enough to squeeze in the largest side), and then fell the rest with epoxy.

    Regards from Perth

    Derek
    Visit www.inthewoodshop.com for tutorials on constructing handtools, handtool reviews, and my trials and tribulations with furniture builds.

  13. #12
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    West Chermside
    Posts
    119

    Default

    I initially bought a Knew fret saw then later when the coping saw was released I bought that as well. It is the first time I have really considered coping and fret saws, serious tools. All the Eclipse variants I had previously simply frustrated and did not allow the blade to be tensioned to a point where they gave consistently good performance.

    When I first became aware of the Elkhead tools replacement handles in cocobolo I was shocked at the cost and could not bring myself to pay that much, so got my wife to buy them for me as a birthday present. The money may come out of the same account but in my mind I had avoided paying such an over the top price.

    I was able to save the original handles by dropping a brad into the open end of the roll pin and giving it a light tap to mark the centre position on the blind side of the of the ferule. This allowed me to drill a clearance hole for a drift punch to drive out the roll pin. I may use them on a file or similar one day or they may just be more junk.

    I had expected these very expensive handles to be a simple slip on replacement but found I had to enlarge the slot in the ferule and do a little easing to make them fit. The added weight helped balance the saws but I do not find the handle shape to be all that comfortable and it is too short.

    In retrospect I would have been better off getting a machinist to make ferules to my specs and turning up some fancy ringed gidgee to an enlarged version of the handle on some wood rasps I have that are very nice in the hand.

    All the best.

    Jeff

  14. #13
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Camden, NSW
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    Default

    The prototype ferrule and sheoak handle arrived about an hour ago

    B7A2238B-5D28-49A1-B93D-1A9828C0CB13.jpg

    So, off with the cast and down to the shed. I specified the width of the slot and the bored hole in the ferrule to be a tight fit on the frame and blade holding spindle respectively and, as such, after dressing only the slot, the ferrule tapped on quite securely and likewise the handle tapped on to the ferrule....

    73E63872-590F-4777-8180-FDE713053F5B.jpg 3159AD46-330B-4DDB-BAAF-28C1E71DA31C.jpg

    I need to to do a bit of alignment but so far, even without set screws nor backfilling with epoxy, the new bigger handle is securely fitted ...... and already a joy to use!

    43427CE3-3685-4F13-97D5-ACF0DBEF2FE5.jpg 783A265A-8990-4CCF-9994-703C75872920.jpg

    Which now raises a further question that could vie with sharpening for controversy, which way do most fit their coping/fret saw blades? I prefer to have the blade mounted to cut on the pull stroke which is a throw back to my weak, old saw frames because cutting on the pull stroke kept the blade in tension and hence straighter? Maybe I don’t need to now that I have a much stronger frame?
    fletty

    PS: cast back on after fitting the handle and typing at normal speed!

    PPS: This is my first post in about 2 years where I have been able to post ALL pictures without unwanted rotation! The relevant magic to prevent rotation is noted here Fletty's new shed WIP ....or is it a retrospective??
    a rock is an obsolete tool ......... until you don’t have a hammer!

  15. #14
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    West Chermside
    Posts
    119

    Default

    Nice job and it is good to see the handle finish allows for a good grip not the slippery gloss on the elk head handles. The ferrule design is something I was not expecting and I can straight away see the advantages of this approach over the traditional sleeve of metal on wood. Do you find it disturbing when something this fiddly goes to plan, I know I do.
    All the best
    Jeff

  16. #15
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Katoomba NSW
    Posts
    4,770

    Default

    Cut on the pull stroke so you can use it on a jeweller's bench or whatever they are called.
    New handle looks good .
    Those were the droids I was looking for.
    https://autoblastgates.com.au

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