Thread: Squares - I wish

G'day Wongdai,

Maybe a recalibratable square from Colen Clenton (http://www.hntgordon.com.au/colenclentonsquares.htm) will meet your requirement. Of course, budget permitting.

I used a 3 inch engineering square to check sawing and planing edges, and the Empire True Blue (http://www.empirelevel.com/squares/combination_squares/) 6 inch and 12 inch combi squares. But nothing over 400mm.

I do know that Empire makes a combi square at 400mm, but as you've mentioned, is it "truly" square.

GUNN

Clark, also the incra squares are good . . . but them Col Clenton's are smooth and Aussie made.

hi wongdai, i recently had the same trouble, so i went to carbatec brisbane and drooled over the colen clenton squares, you will have to re-mortgage your house to buy one of those puppies!

i ended up buying a boxed set of 3 engineering squares, the longest being 200mm long, i use a stanley knife to check for square rather than a pencil.

the box set was about $80, and perfectly square.

regards, justin.

Yep, engineering squares are the go. Got a 4" and an 8", and as long as you don't drop them they are square...

I have several rosewood/brass/steel squares (I think they may be old Marples squares) and none of them were square when new. I regularly check my squares against a known straight edge as Wongdai described above, but then I tap the end of the blade on a block of wood, re-check them and repeat until they are square.

Squares don't need to be dropped to go out of true - it seems they can do it all by themselves just laying around on the bench or hanging on the wall.

Originally Posted by Wongdai

Is it me, or is it really hard to get good accurate squares?

The story: I test my squares are square by placing one edge against a straight edge and drawing a line, then flipping it over and drawing another line. If the lines are not parralel the square is not square.

So, pretty much ALL my squares are not square, either on the inside, outside or sometimes both.

So being my birthday today, I went to Carbatec and bought one of their squares that is "guaranteed square to 0.5 of a degree". I asked the fellows in the shop if this was their most accurate square, and he said "Yes. In fact, we use this as our reference square.".

(I bet you can see where this is going...)

Took it home and guess what? Not square. The lines diverge by about a millimetre over 400mm.

Now to be fair, this MAY be accurate to 0.5 of a degree - I can't be arsed working it out. But still, sure there is a square out there that is actually square?

Any sugestions?

I'm guessing that 1mm over 360mm would be 1 degree so yours is close to 1 degree out. If my logic is right it would be 0.9 of a degree.

Cheers
SG

I bought 1 of carba-tec's engineers squares,
http://www.carbatec.com.au/measureme...rsquos-squares
I've found it to be pretty good & use it to check any other squares i buy.

Hi Wongdai,
as others have said before. The engineering squares are very good value for money. You can pay a lot or a little and the accuracy will vary even in some of the more expensive brands.
Colen Clenton's and Chris Vesper's squares are fantastic if you have the spare readys.
You will never regret the purchase.
http://catalog.starrett.com/catalog/catalog/PLH2.asp?NodeNum=21489&Mode=PLIST
http://www.totaltools.com.au/icat/pdf.php?id=265
https://www.vespertools.com.au/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=34

and you have the link to the Clenton tools in another post.
Total tools even have their OEM eng squares that are pretty good too.
Good luck
Kevin

I like Colen Clenton's square because it is easily recalibrated. I am also very impressed with his service and advice, just what a woodworker needs, a guy who makes tools, knows them backwards and stands by them completely.

Chris Vesper's square is a real beauty for the small stuff and dovetails especially. 'Tis a thing of beauty (but not cheap). Buy one and have the family bury it with you.

EDIT: I should add that I used a Marples for a long time too (until I trod on it )

Using Sketchup and the protractor function my calculations say that 0.5* over 400mm is 3.5mm! I've checked and rechecked this and it appears to be correct.
0.1* is 0.7mm and 0.05* is 0.3mm over 400mm.

I've also just realized that the way you've checked your square will double any results. Meaning that if your square has a tolerance of 0.5* over 400mm your checking lines could be up to 7mm apart and be on the limit of tolerance!

Ben

But wood moves a little bit anyway so something that is only a tiny bit out shouldnt matter too much...

Originally Posted by Wongdai

Is it me, or is it really hard to get good accurate squares?
...........

Took it home and guess what? Not square. The lines diverge by about a millimetre over 400mm.

Now to be fair, this MAY be accurate to 0.5 of a degree - I can't be arsed working it out. But still, sure there is a square out there that is actually square?

Any sugestions?

Your square is accurate to 0.14 of a degree ( or to put it another way 3.5 times more accurate than what Carbatec claims!)

There is no such thing as a perfect square, and even if there was, there is still no marking tool available that has a zero width . The level of accuracy you need really depends on what sort of work you are doing. In any case, wood expands and contracts significantly and can't be finished as precisely as metal.

I use an Incra 186mm Before that I used my Dad's little old 4" Henry Disston & Sons, but with the Incra I found it was out about .5mm. So that's my excuse for any booboos.

If I could afford it a Chris Vesper or Colen Clenton's square.

Originally Posted by Dion N

There is no such thing as a perfect square, and even if there was, there is still no marking tool available that has a zero width . The level of accuracy you need really depends on what sort of work you are doing. In any case, wood expands and contracts significantly and can't be finished as precisely as metal.

Yes, along with other similar comments. On top of which, are there many of us that don't double check their square regularly, I know that I certainly flip my square or mark from both edges of a piece every single time; then again that may help compensate for my other lazy habits.

Denn