Thread: Stainless steel rifflers from Lee Valley

This thread is digressing and moving in a very stupid and potentially inflammatory direction.

On behalf of all nations, maybe we should just kill it. Especially since the rifflers are now sold out.

Originally Posted by Luke Maddux

This thread is digressing and moving in a very stupid and potentially inflammatory direction.

On behalf of all nations, maybe we should just kill it. Especially since the rifflers are now sold out.

Well, I have a different opinion. I think we should take the stereotypes that people think of us and chuckle. Outside of the US, especially when our Scot friends come over, we're viewed by our friends as waiting to eat or shoot something, or wave a flag.

Usually after they're here for a while and don't meet anyone like that, it kind of wears off.

I think people should just lighten up about it. We could choose to get offended over it and be a walking nerve, or censor ourselves to the point of sterility. Neither of those seems very good to me. It's easier to find the humor in things and choose not to be offended unless someone is trying to offend us - which is really rarely the case.

(and of course, when we get to know people past the cultural first impression, we find we can get along with all of them. If we can't, it's not a cultural issue, it's because one of us is a jerk - and that has no cultural boundary).

Originally Posted by planemaker

Hi DW. i hate to burst your bubble, but that's an apt description of how most view the USA.

Stewie;

machismo a strong or exaggerated sense of manliness; an assumptive attitude that virility, courage, strength, and entitlement to dominate are attributes or concomitants of masculinity.



a strong or exaggerated sense of power or the right to dominate.

Certainly, and anyone in any country who exploits another either privately or organized can look at the united states and pat themselves on the back because they can feel their wrongs are less wrong . And the machismo thing is only used here to discuss the exaggerated univision roles of men and women, or in terms of the spanish (as in spain). I thought it creates a unique color wedging that spanish word in for the French. (the last time I heard someone actually use the word machismo, it was the spanish speaking wife of a friend who gets upset with him because he attempts to add "el" in front of anything he says and "-o" at the end. Like "can you hand me el remoto" (the tv remote). It infuriates her, but it stuck in my mind that she said spanish is such a machismo language that he can make up words, designate them as male (el) and often not be too far off.

Reminds me of mixing words to try to make something quaint and foreign seeming (which is often done here in the US where no "true" germans or whoever will see that their language is being mangled). We had a gift shop in Gettysburg (a town not familar to the aussies, I'd imagine, but of some note here) called "Das Gift Haus".

One problem. Stuffing the English word Gift in because the shop owner wanted people to know it was a German tourist gift shop turns off the germans and germans are pretty particular about their language being used properly (brings another cultural thing, in germany, you will always have your usage corrected even if it's apparent that you're hopeless). Gift is poison, or to poison - thus the lack of love for mixing and matching words in that case.

By the way, the UK place that I saw these things.

No clue who this merchant is. The rifflers look a lot alike though, don't they? And a steal if they arrive cut as neatly for that price.

http://www.tiranti.co.uk/edgeimpacts...p?Product=2069

Originally Posted by Luke Maddux

This thread is digressing and moving in a very stupid and potentially inflammatory direction.

On behalf of all nations, maybe we should just kill it. Especially since the rifflers are now sold out.

It's wandered a little off topic, but it served its purpose which was to let people know about the special offer, and I know I've learnt a bit more about rifflers, rasps and also got to know one or two of the guys on here a bit better as people and not just names on a screen, which is all positive I reckon

Are these similar? They are made from carbon steel, so they might come from another shop. But the price is similar, 20 to 30 euro for a set of 8.

https://www.dictum.com/en/tools/wood...fKey=e_OsJiONB

No, those have much more crude stitching on them. That's what the retailers over here generally sell, riffler shaped objects and they're usually around $20 for a set of 8.

They got me with those when I was a rank beginner. The teeth are too coarse and too sparse and gnarly to do much of anything.

Originally Posted by D.W.

I think people should just lighten up about it. We could choose to get offended over it and be a walking nerve, or censor ourselves to the point of sterility. Neither of those seems very good to me. It's easier to find the humor in things and choose not to be offended unless someone is trying to offend us - which is really rarely the case.

Well said.

Originally Posted by Colin62

I It's wandered a little off topic, but it served its purpose.. and I know I've learnt a bit more about rifflers, rasps and also got to know one or two of the guys on here a bit better as people and not just names on a screen, which is all positive I reckon

Also well said.

Cheers, Vann (owner of a couple of Liogier rasps - producer of less than 5 or 6 decent pieces annually)

You get what you pay for. Crude stitching is cheap. The width, height and density of teeth is what sells a riffler.
It`s a big deal when you move up a step to stone carving. What you might like for wood is toothless for stone.
So keep the critique in context.

Any more Yankee bashing, start another thread. They are quite capable of putting their own country in the toilet
or have you not been reading the newsÉ.

I had the very good fortune to live in Australia, and travel some, for 4 years.
May not seem like much but sure beat the Hello out of being a tourist.

You get what you pay for. Crude stitching is cheap. The width, height and density of teeth is what sells a riffler.
It`s a big deal when you move up a step to stone carving. What you might like for wood is toothless for stone.
So keep the critique in context.

Robson. Who mentioned stone. You do get what you pay for. Especially with files, rasps, and rifflers. Why would I waste US$60.00 (inc. postage) to buy a cheap set of rifflers made from some backward country like Pakistan. I would rather pay the extra US$105.00 (inc. postage) and have the peace of mind that I am purchasing high quality rifflers from a reputable business that specialize in this field of work.

Have a nice day.

regards Stewie;

Stewie, I have only one rasp from pakistan. It's the gramercy sawmaker's rasp. It's quite good. I have never extended myself to buy french rasps, but I doubt they're much better than it is. To get one over here would be nearly double the cost, though (perhaps a little less, but considerably more than the gramercy rasp). The profile of the gramercy saw maker's rasp is preferable to how the liogier rasp is bent, too, but that's just my opinion. *

Pakistan's rasps, at least the ones presented over here, are not crudely stitched like the cheap ones that are $10 or $15 a set. If I had a use for rifflers, I'd buy them, but there is zero chance I'd buy a set of french rifflers for $300 unless I were selling goods and could recover the cost.

There is a mentality that well made goods from third world countries are somehow inferior. I don't get that. They are a good value (even if you have to hunt for the exceptions like these rasps and mujingfang blades, etc). Poorly made goods from third world countries (or more appropriately, all countries) are inferior.

* all of this is moot at this point, the gramercy rasp hasn't been in stock for quite some time, though it was the only one available for quite some time (liogier chose to produce it after it was shown worthwhile by gramercy, isn't that a departure?). The second part that makes it moot is that comparing things available in the US to what it costs to get them to aus is probably a non starter.

Originally Posted by D.W.

The profile of the gramercy saw maker's rasp is preferable to how the liogier rasp is bent, too, but that's just my opinion. *

* all of this is moot at this point, the gramercy rasp hasn't been in stock for quite some time, though it was the only one available for quite some time (liogier chose to produce it after it was shown worthwhile by gramercy, isn't that a departure?).

For complete clarity, the Handle Makers Rasp was not an idea that Liogier came up with at all, and in fact they were unaware that they existed. A request by an Australian woodworker was made asking if they made such a thing (because the Gramercy had already been out of stock for a considerable period, and not likely to return), and as they did not make one the shape was developed though two prototypes, in early 2012, involving much public discussion.

The first curve, although more prominent than the Gramercy (i.e. smaller radius), was deemed by the testers to be not quite enough, and so a second curve was drawn and submitted to them (an even smaller radius). It was that curve that became the production model, and by all accounts it has proven very popular.

You can acquaint yourself with the facts here (unfortunately many pics have gone missing due to a forum error during an upgrade a couple of years ago):
https://www.woodworkforums.com/showth...le+makers+rasp

Originally Posted by D.W.

I have never extended myself to buy french rasps, but I doubt they're much better than it is.

Hardly a qualified opinion from someone who has never used one, and who seems to prefer facts rather than speculation (based upon previous posts).

Originally Posted by D.W.

To get one over here would be nearly double the cost, though (perhaps a little less, but considerably more than the gramercy rasp).

Double the cost of the Liogier or the Gramercy? The latter may well be true (but moot, as you say), but certainly not the former - freight costs are available on the website.

I bought one set direct from Liogier consisting of the cabinet makers set (5 rasps and brass brush) and all 3 of the handle makers rasps. They were a revelation.

The only other full-size rasps I had used before purchasing the Liogiers were Nicholson's #49, #50 and the so called 4 in 1. The Liogiers are like scalpels compared to the stone-axe Nicholson's. I've become so accustomed to the ease with which the Liogiers work that I no longer use the Nicholson's for anything.

In the riffler-rasp department I have Airou's, Corradi's and Nicholsons. The Airou's beat out the others with ease. The Corradi's are very similar in feel and function to the Nicholson's - too coarse for rifflers in my opinion.

My larger riffler files are Corradi's and Nicholson's. The Corradi's are my favorites.

My small riffler / die sinker files are all Nicholson's, 0 and 00 cuts. Perfect but unfortunately now discontinued.

The shipping on my set of Logier rasps was very reasonable, something like 12 Euro or so.

Originally Posted by D.W.

The profile of the gramercy saw maker's rasp is preferable to how the liogier rasp is bent, too, but that's just my opinion.

The thinking at the time the Liogier HMR was developed was that the Gramercy wouldn't be suitable for "closed" handles as it did not have enough curve. Indeed this proved to be the case when the first Liogier prototype was sent around to the various testers. They were unanimous (IIRC) that even the increased curve wasn't enough for closed handles, and the stroke had to be approached with far too much care to be efficient in use.