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  1. #1
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    Default Making Stanley 46 cutters

    Would anyone be able to post a close-up pic of the match depth stop on a Stanley 46?

    I mean the match cutter depth stop which fits inside the cutter, not the one on the plane body. I’ve found lots of pics of cutters online but nothing that shows the match cutter depth stop in any detail. I know it has to have bevelled sides to fit in the cutter bevels but a pic would be helpful to give the general layout and appearance.

    I’ve acquired a 46 cheap, cheap because it was missing cutters of course, and I’m in the process of making some.

    I cut the steel oversize with a hack saw and then filed back, checking with a Vernier caliper.


    Initial match cutter layout.
    matchlayout.jpg
    The match cutter was the hardest to do, to centre the slot the initial cuts had to be laid out offset from the centre line (because the edge of the cut moves as the side of the slot is bevelled).
    square cuts.jpgBefore bevelling.
    bevel guide.jpgA wood block cut at the required 20 degree angle and a clamp makes it surprisingly easy to bevel the edges.
    edges bevelled.jpg
    I have the blanks cut and edges bevelled, just need to put an initial grind on the blade edge before heat treating. I didn’t follow the original Stanley cutter sizes, the ones I will use most often are metric. I made the match cutter a shade under 6mm to er.. match the 6mm plough cutter.

    Regards

    Jim

    My blade size calculations.

    The cutters are skewed of course and the edges bevelled so a bit of calculation is required to get the starting square stock size. I measured the cutter skew angle by putting a rule across the skates and marking the blade(20 degrees) and used a bevel against the skate and a bit of tool steel clamped in the plane to give the angle the blade sits in the plane (30 degrees). I’ve seen some variation in these values reported but I wonder if earlier versions of the plane had more manufacturing tolerance. Mine seemed spot on at 20 and 30 degree angles but it is one of the last 10 -12 versions.
    Easy enough then to calculate the starting square stock size for any particular cut width.
    I cut the steel oversize with a hack saw and then filed back, checking with a Vernier caliper.
    The spreadsheet below is to impossible levels of accuracy but with a Vernier it's easy to get to within a tenth of a millimetre.
    blade sizes.JPG

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  3. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
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    Katoomba NSW
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    Default

    I have a full set of cutters for my No. 46 and I just checked and I don't have a match cutter depth stop. A quick google search only shows a stop in one photo. It may be that the match cutter depth stop was only included on certain types.
    the one in this photo seems to have the correct angles. I saw some others that were probably re-purposed from a No.45 as they didn't look right.
    https://www.ebay.com/itm/ANTIQUE-GRO...-/132381476541
    Those were the droids I was looking for.
    https://autoblastgates.com.au

  4. #3
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    Ireland
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by NCArcher View Post
    I have a full set of cutters for my No. 46 and I just checked and I don't have a match cutter depth stop. A quick google search only shows a stop in one photo. It may be that the match cutter depth stop was only included on certain types.
    the one in this photo seems to have the correct angles. I saw some others that were probably re-purposed from a No.45 as they didn't look right.
    Thanks for the link.

    I would find it very difficult to cut a tongue without the depth stop so I decided to have a try while the cutter has just the initial pre heat-treat bevel. With all the angles involved there's quite a lot of fitting and I wouldn't fancy trying to do that on a sharp blade.

    For such a small component there are a lot of angles in play. The part which fits through the slot in the cutter has to have sides bevelled at the same 20⁰ as the cutter sides. The foot part which will sit on the wood has to be horizontal but the cutter on which it sits is skewed at 30⁰and tilted back at 45⁰. After a few attempts to grind the correct angle free hand without success I cut a piece of wood with the two angles to give me a guide for the initial foot cut.foot_guide.jpgfoot_guide2.jpg

    The foot seemed to be at the correct angle so some hacksaw cuts and work with a file gave me the basic shape.

    first cuts.jpgclean up bevel.jpg


    Then cut a step to match the cutter thickness and drill and tap for the screw.

    itfits.jpgstepcut.jpg

    I'll need to clean up the sharp edges but it seems to fit ok at the right angle.

    insitu.jpginsitu2.jpgmatchstop.jpg

    I'm sure Mr Stanley's version was smaller and neater but this should work.

  5. #4
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    Nov 2006
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    Ireland
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    Default

    heattreat.jpg
    My heat treat kit is very simple, just a couple of propane torches.

    A brick with a hole acts as a kiln and reflects the heat, easy to get the blades up to a bright red heat.

    The container for the oil has to be metal in case the oil goes on fire. I also have a glass plate I could set over the oil if it does burst into flame. Never happened to me yet though. The worst I’ve ever had is a quick flash of flame as the blade is plunged.

    A magnet on a stick can be used to check the metal is hot enough, the steel loses its magnetism when the blade is at the temperature for quenching. After a few times the colour alone is enough of a guide.

    I use groundnut(peanut) oil for the quench, unlike motor oil or anything similar it doesn’t stink up the kitchen when tempering.

    Face mask and gloves are essential since the oil can spit when a red hot blade is plunged into it.

    The heating and oil quench hardens the O1 tool steel but it’s now brittle. It needs tempering by heating at 200⁰C for an hour in the oven.

    Beware that the brick remains scalding hot long after the oil container and metal have cooled, took me by surprise the first time I heat treated blades.

    Once the blades have been tempered in the oven they're ready for sharpening when they come out.

    Regards

    Jim

  6. #5
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    Default CORRECTION – Wrong bevel angle

    CORRECTION – Wrong bevel angle

    My old dad had an expression whenever anything would go wrong when he was doing DIY or in the garage. Instead of cutting loose with a string of cuss words he would sigh and say ‘ son, that would teach you to swear’.

    Last night was definitely a swearable moment.

    I had initially cut out my blanks and bevelled both sides at 20⁰ based on some measurements reported elsewhere online. After the initial shaping and heat-treat I was about to start sharpening when I got a chance to look at an original Stanley blade.


    One glance was enough to tell me that the two edges have different bevels. Some measurements confirmed this, the edge furthest away from the plane body is indeed bevelled at 20⁰ but the edge closest to the plane has a steeper 30⁰ bevel. I don't have the same restraint as my dad so as you can imagine some choice words were used.

    At least it’s fixable, just a pity I didn’t find out before the heat-treat. I’ve changed the angle on my bevelling jig to 30⁰ and confirmed that I can use a diamond file and plate to take the sides to the steeper angle.

    The only good thing is that the changes don’t impact on the blade sizes. The bevel being changed just increases the relief angle in the cut at the side of the blade, it doesn’t change the cutting size at all.

    Regards

    Jim

  7. #6
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    Ireland
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    Default

    Finished.
    I sharpened using a couple of guides to align the cutter projection for a 25⁰ bevel and 20⁰ skew.
    sharpening_setup.jpg

    After sharpening the nickers I tried a cross grain cut. The only thing I can fault about the 46 is that a 9mm dado is the smallest that can be cut cross grain with both nickers in operation. Smaller cutters would have to be done without the sliding section and with only one nicker.9mmwithnickers.jpg

    The cut itself was a revelation, so easy with a skewed blade. The blade was easier to align with the nickers than I had expected and the cut was square.
    cross grain.jpg


    The obligatory curly shavings.

    curly_shavings_2.jpgcurly_shavings_1.jpg

    Not a bad return for a few evenings work, a plane with no blades transformed to a useful tool for the cost of a bit of tool steel.

    46 cutters.jpg

    It would have been even easier if I’d realised before hardening the blades that the side bevels were different. It wasn’t obvious from the online pics, even with blades on top of one another it’s hard to see that the RH side bevel is 30⁰ while the LH side is only at 20⁰.

    different bevels.jpg

    A collector would have made the blades to match the original Stanley sizes but I’ll find the metric sizes more useful, and they will match my box.

    46 cutter box.jpg

    Regards

    Jim

  8. #7
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    Default

    Well done, Jim, nothing more satisfying than bringing a good old tool back to working condition.

    I'm having a bit of a love-in with skewed blades atm; hadn't used them much at all in the past & failed to appreciate their full advantages, so the couple of skewed planes I made recently have fascinated me by the way they roll those shavings out. Straight-bed rebates tend to choke pretty quickly, particularly with thick shavings, but with skewed blades, they just roll out, thick or thin, no problems. Only downside is the darn things are fussier to make.....

    Cheers,
    IW

  9. #8
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    Default

    I find it strangely satisfying to make spills with the No. 46. A largish blade and a straight grained piece of timber and the spills just fly off the plane and stack themselves neatly beside the vice. (well that's how I remember it anyway. It's been a while since I used the 46)
    Those were the droids I was looking for.
    https://autoblastgates.com.au

  10. #9
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    Default

    I recently had the opportunity to try Ian's skewed planes. They were a treat and those curled shavings brought a huge grin to my face.

    I think I am very slightly hooked on them.

    Regards
    Paul
    Bushmiller;

    "Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely!"

  11. #10
    Join Date
    May 2019
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    Default

    Hi,

    I am bringing this thread back up, because I am planning to also make new blades for my #46.

    I played around with it on the weekend and liked the way it worked right away. But I have only one blade.

    Before I am getting ready to make some more I thought I better check the angles on mine and found some differences to the above used angles.

    Blade scew in mine is more 32 degrees than 30

    The relief angle towards the plane main stock is 36 degrees

    And the angle.on the outer edge is more like 22 degrees.

    Now I am.thinking if I shall adjust the calculations to the angles I have measured or keep as given above? What are your thoughts?

    Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

  12. #11
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    Ireland
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Cklett View Post
    Before I am getting ready to make some more I thought I better check the angles on mine and found some differences to the above used angles.
    Blade scew in mine is more 32 degrees than 30
    The relief angle towards the plane main stock is 36 degrees
    And the angle.on the outer edge is more like 22 degrees.
    Now I am.thinking if I shall adjust the calculations to the angles I have measured or keep as given above? What are your thoughts?

    There are others on this forum with a lot more experience than me so you make get some better answers.
    My quick 2 cents worth.

    It's great that you have a blade to test and take measurements.
    The relief angle on the side facing the plane has to be a shade more than the angle of the blade to the plane.
    36 v 32 seems to be ok.


    The best guide will be if the existing blade cuts ok when sharpened.
    It should sit flat on the stock when tightened into the body and when you make a cut the bottom of the groove
    should be parallel to the face of the stock, not deeper at one side.

    If this works then your measurements should be fine for more blades. There does seem to have been some
    variability in early 46 models, lots of measurements online which vary about the 30 and 20 values.

    I find the skewed blades on the 46 to be excellent for tricky grain, I think you'll be very pleased with it.

    Good luck.

  13. #12
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    Default

    Hi Jim


    I have recently come by a beautifully complete Stanley #46 but with no cutters.
    I guess, the question is...

    "Jim, are you happy to go through the trouble of making a few more cutters for a (potential) customer in Birmingham (UK)?"
    I see you're based in Ireland, so not tooo far!

    Would that be an option? Or should I try and bumble along with my amateur blacksmithing skills and try to follow your (very well documented) posts.

  14. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Affy420 View Post
    Hi Jim




    I have recently come by a beautifully complete Stanley #46 but with no cutters.
    I guess, the question is...


    "Jim, are you happy to go through the trouble of making a few more cutters for a (potential) customer in Birmingham (UK)?"
    I see you're based in Ireland, so not tooo far!


    Would that be an option? Or should I try and bumble along with my amateur blacksmithing skills and try to follow your (very well documented) posts.



    Sorry, I'm not in a position to take on any sort of paid work.
    If you want to buy then the St James Bay Co (in the USA but also on ebay) do sets of replacement cutters.
    I ordered a set of replacement nickers for the 46 from them without any difficulties.


    Making a set of cutters yourself shouldn't be too difficult. A piece of O1 tool steel from ebay
    isn't expensive and the only tools I used were hacksaw and files (and a propane blow lamp for
    heat treating). The tool steel is easily worked as supplied. I bought 3mm thick stock, the original cutters
    are 1/8" thick.


    My metal work skills are minimal so I'd encourage you to have a go.
    The 46 with its skewed cutters is my goto tool now for any sort of groove or rebate. I think
    you'll be very pleased if you can make (or buy) some cutters.

    Regards Jim

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