Thread: new stanley #5 - help to tune

I have a new stanley no 4, don't ask me why.
I figured it was useless and recently purchased the veritas scraping plane insert to use with it.
Haven't used it as yet but figure it is worth a go.

Jack

Originally Posted by routermaniac

Having said that, if you have the money get a Veritas plane

Today I lashed out and bought a new Veritas (LV) LA block plane form the n ew CT store in Melbourne. After a (very) little bit of honing and general cleaning/waxing I gave it a try.

So this is what all the "plane nutz" have been going on about! It's a wonderful tool to use; next on the list is an LV LA bench plane and/or Jack plane. Coices, choices, Bugger!, choices

Cheers!

I forgot to mention that I'd also recently tuned, with some difficulty, a new(ish) Stanley #4, and had thought, until the arrival of the LV LA BP (and I thought IT was bad for acronyms!), that it was ok. Rubbish! The LV etc etc, just blows it away.

Cheers!

Theva - the trouble is getting into the part of the plane body that the frog 'mates' to.
Care to give a tip on that?

Clinton,

Have look at Patrick’s Blood & Gore site and check out the drawing & component names, about one third down the page: http://www.supertool.com/StanleyBG/stan1.htm

The sequence of dismantling using the same terminology:

1) After removing cap iron, chip breaker & cutting iron, remove the two “frog screws” (10). They are M5 with flat slot type.

2) If the frog does not come out then remove adjusting nut (8) and the small screw just above the “frog adjusting screw" (46).

Now, follow up as describe in the link Derek posted; especially check & the flatten the upper surface of frog, where it come in contact with the cutting iron / blade.

Of course this advice is given in good faith etc etc…

Good luck.

Regards,
Theva

Thanks - I think that Stanley should be paying me for my time!
Originally I was following the http://www.woodcentral.com/bparticle...tune.shtml#top
which is quite a good article.

I just can't justify paying the sort of money a top class plane costs - I'd feel too guilty ... I'll get back to the lapping before I go off on a tangent.
Cheers and thanks - I'll let everyone know if I achieve a good result.

I'll try and stick in a comment Clinton,,,,,hopefully nobody will notice; being on so many ignore lists by now :mad: ya buggers

I agree with the fella's about taking the new stanley back. But I would go to the markets instead and buy an old stanley or the like instead (maybe 50 bucks tops); the casting in the old stanleys will be so much easier to flattern.

But, if your stubburn like myself (I understand mate, its hard being stubborn)
you can have a shot at flatterning this hard sole by yourself without going to some machinist or someone (which I'd imagine would be silly anyway, since it will cost a fortune I'd imagine, unless you've got a brother in sales or something)...and at least this way your'll probably learn something important.

Use a belt sander, mines just a portable one clamped on its back, with very, very, very coarse belts ....that combined with a long piece of glass on a flat surface with sandpaper adhered to it (1 metre I reckon)..that coarse 'hermes' paper (blue stuff) is great.....got the idea off these forum blokes and it improved things a lot (from carpatec).

What I do is make stripes accross the sole with niko pen,,then make a few swipes on the sandpaper, centred ones with your grip around the frog, and only in one direction or else you might induce a rocking motion that might cause a rounding of sorts. So swipe, pickup, take back to start, swipe...etc. not back and forth...this will tell you whats wrong with it.....high spots will reveal themselves.

What you want for your sole to be considered 'flat' is at a bear mininium is at least 3 high spots, one at the front, one at the back, and one (very important) right at the front of the mouth. So with your belt sander grind away the high spots roughly by rocking your sole over the belt sanders wheel, takes a little touch around the mouth, because if you forget yourself and that belt wheel finds the mouth, sugar, you've stuffed it, I've done it before....pretty gutsy to admit it hey!!

Now, its not a grind all day on the belt sander thing, and check only a couple of times sort of thing,,,,,just mark your sole where you want to grind, take it to the belt sander for just a few seconds, make a few more swipes on the glass to see how the soles changed (use niko pen if you like, but you shouldn't need it, you'll see where the high spots are scratched)...back to the belt sander for just a few seconds.....back to the glass and on and on ..and if your patient your'll have your 3 high spots (well probably about 50!!!! ) but thats fine.....just only use the rounded part where your belt starts to turn.....if you just plop you sole straight on top your'll end up with a rocker bottom plane (which I've done with a stanley..but some other time)

could take forever....or could take 20 minutes.....don't know.....buy I suspect your soles not as bad off as some impley it might be......but ...you know....don't trust me .....I'm just some looney whos adicted to apricot kernals.......goodluck

Don't sweat your purchase. My first plane was a new Stanley #5 purchased a few years ago. I fettled with it for a few hours- trying to flatten the sole with 80 grid sandpaper sprayed with WD-40 oil, filing the critical points of the frog so it is more stable, etc. A recent article in Fine Woodworking by David Charlesworth explains the process in detail. I also bought a HOCK blade which I highly recommend. Anyway- the plane works great and can remove whisper thin shavings from hard maple and cuts through Poplar like it's not even there. I've used it for flattening one side of boards and for squaring up an edge. It really is a jack of all trades. That said, in future, I will never buy a new Stanley or Record due to the effort required to get it working well. But once you fix it up, it's really not a bad plane.

Originally Posted by bitingmidge

Have you been getting tips off ApricotSeed? He's the only one I know who can tune a Stanley in a few minutes!! :eek: :eek: :eek:

Out of interest, let's know how long it takes, and the tolerance in the result.

Cheers,

P

Havent started on the Stanley yet...has taken me 2 days to get through a pile of new chisels. Might get onto it tomorrow.

This is my stanley's sole you can see it started rough and I polished it up a fair bit to get it into some sort of flatness. There are marks showing around the toe from working with it. It is most polished at the toe just behind the mouth and right at the heel. Inbetween my flattening has taken a lick off the top leaving plenty of the rough grinding showing.

I did photograph the frog because that was worse however you can't see the detail in the photo so I will do that later so you can see how rough it is and how much it was out of true.

Studley

Hi Studley

The sole is quite a bit out of flat. The picture reveals that the area behind the mouth is a high point. There is a depression in front of the mouth (critical) and ar the toe (also critical). You have some work to do! To make it easier, get hold of belt sander belts made from Zirconion Oxide. I start with 80 and 120 grits glued to glass in 600mm lengths. These belts will last far, far longer than anything else. Remember to paint the high areas with an indelible, waterproof ink (I just use a blue texta) so that you can track your progress. Don't be tempted to move to a higher grit until you have removed all the metal that must be removed (either because the sole is not flat, or because you have scratches from a previous grit).

Regards from Perth

Derek

I'll second apricotrippers idea of using at least a 1m long glass plate. It makes life much easier... If you know anyone with a large drum sander who has a few old belts that are not needed, these make good material for lapping depending on the grit provided they are not totally clogged.

I must admit though its one thing trying to lap the sole of a 4 but if you had to do it on a really stuffed 7 either recruit reinforcements or just live with it or bin it! My Carter 7 had a significant hollow in the middle which I have lapped down to acceptable levels (an engineers square seems to sit flat on it) but this is not something that I would recommend to anyone :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: .

As food for thought, Guru Patrick Leach of Stanley Blood and Gore, does not subscribe to the view that plane soles must be absolutely flat. When you think about it, planes act as spatial filters, just like light-filters only let through certain frequencies, and audio-filters only let through certain audio frequencies. The length of the plane and the depth of cut determine the wavelength, or spatial frequency, of undulation remaining on the surface after planing. Planes are low-pass spatial filters, only allowing long wavelength undulations (low spatial frequencies) to remain. A long jointer taking a relatively thick shaving does not have to be as flat (highly polished) as a smoother taking micron-sized gossamer shavings.

That said, I still think it makes sense that the area directly in front of the mouth must be flat to prevent tearing out of the wood fibres.

For the ultimate in non-flat sole planes, see the 'furring plane', the Stanley#340:

Leach says of this plane:

This wierd sole configuration, designed purposely to minimize the amount of contact with the wood, makes sworn members of the Flat Plane Society recoil in horror. If you ever stumble across one of these planes, don't bother trying to lap it, ok?

(see http://www.supertool.com/StanleyBG/stan14.htm)

Originally Posted by zenwood

As food for thought, Guru Patrick Leach of Stanley Blood and Gore, ,,,,etc ...

Zenwood,,,,very interesting stuff......I've never seen the #340 before........

Personally always thought getting your sole perfectly flat was often taken too far.....In fact I'd say it can be advantageous for it to not be.......less suction on a rippling sole ,,,,which I suppose is what corrigated soles are about........but I don't think I could have less than 3 high points !!.....only a Jedi Masters could feel comfortable using one in practise I reakon.....

Yep , thats what I reakon Luke Skywalker uses,,,,,, a #340 !