Thread: Stanley No. 6 plane blade refurb - worth the effort?

Try using the Ruler Trick (back bevel with a thin steel ruler). That may remove sufficient metal to go below the pits. Otherwise get another blade.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Well, if you're thinking of replacing the blade anyway...

What I would do is grind the blade down and get rid of that nasty patch on the right. You might still need to put a slight back bevel on it when you're all finished depending on the amount of 'rot'.
The way I grind away bad patches of blade is to put the blade straight (You will grind a 90 degree 'bevel' or square the edge) into the grinder. Don't try to grind the cutting bevel all the way back. You will just end up over heating the blade. You still have to cool the blade in water...but you know that. Use a coarse grinding wheel for this job...but you knew that too. When you've got beyond the rot, grind a cutting bevel into the blade.

Have fun.

The back bevel suggested by Derek would be my first try. If you still have pitting at the edge then get another blade but keep that one. With a camber it will still be good enough for rough wood removal.
Regards
John

I'd not considered making a back bevel, I'll give it a go. I will still have to grind off a quite a bit of the iron to get past the worst of the pitting. Thanks for the advice!

I might look into getting a new iron anyway, I am keen to put the plane to work and I have to accept that I don't have that much spare time on my hands.

Just out of interest, can anyone tell me if there is any difference between the old Stanley UK, USA and Australian plane irons?

I assume that the modern Stanley blades are not worth bothering with?

Maybe try looking at some old wooden planes. Except for a very few rarities the things are practically worthless on the market. Under ten bucks is not uncommon even in good condition.

However. A good proportion of them have astoundingly high quality cutters in them. Find the right size and for just a few dollars you have a top end solution you'd have to pay serious money for bought new.

Keep the cutter and use the wood for kindling.

Originally Posted by letaage

.... can anyone tell me if there is any difference between the old Stanley UK, USA and Australian plane irons?...

Tweedle Dum & Tweedle Dee, imo, except for the blades made in Australia (late 1970s- early 1980s?) which had a chunk of HSS forge-welded on the end. They were quite an advance on their regular HCS blades (I've worn two of them out!). However, you'd be lucky to stumble on one of those, now, they only made them for a short while and they've long since disappeared from the market.

I have both Lee Valley and Hock after-market blades and I reckon they are a very good bang for your buck. Can't speak for IBC, so someone who has one will have to address that. Both LV & Hock blades are a bit thicker than the original Stanleys, which adds a noticeable solidity to the action of the plane. In my opinion, it's worth installing one of these blades for the improvement in performance it can bring. And they are not so thick that you will have trouble with the depth adjuster cam not reaching through to engage properly with the slot in the cap iron. I prefer O1 over A2, because I find it the easiest of all to sharpen well. It takes a very good edge easily, and holds it at least 50% longer, on average, than any of the original Stanley/Record blades I've had.

But that's just my personal preference, if you regularly get stuck into very hard woods with your planes, you might like to consider the PMV-11 blades from LV. I'm not overawed by the one I have, it is not as easy to hone as my O1 blades, and I cannot get quite as fine an edge, but I do concede that it will hold the edge I do manage to put on it for far longer than anything else.

If that iron you have is half as bad as it looks, I'd be ordering a new blade immediately. It would be a LOT of work to bring that up to scratch, and even if you got it right, they are not the most wonderful bits of steel, so why bother? .....

Cheers,

New UK made Stanley irons come up on EBay quite regularly, the Tool Exchange seller has singles for $25 and packs of 5 for $80. He also sells them assembled complete with cap irons; again singly and in packs of 5. Consider buying some spare irons and just swapping them out when they start to lose their edges and having a big sharpening session now and again.

The early (pre-WW2) US made irons were made from laminated steel and were very good, unfortunately now they are as expensive as a brand new iron from LV so only worth it to a collector. New US ones are readily available and for some reason are about a third more expensive that a brand new UK iron. I highly doubt that they are actually any "better" than UK made ironss. Same goes for normal Aus made.

As previously mentioned though there was a run of Australian made irons with a HSS tip; from what I've read about them they are simply the best blades you can get and outperform modern high end brands like LV and Hock. When they come up on EBay they generally go for about $100. I've been trying to get my hands on one for months now!

Hi Ian

I am curious about your sharpening stones and method ... really just trying to understand why you find honing PM-V11 more difficult than I experience. In theory, it should be similar to A2, although the grains in the PM steel are finer (I believe), and the edge is keener. That is my experience.

Recently, I have been alternating between O1 (Clifton hand forged), A2 (LN), and PM-V11 (LV). The O1 hones up quickest, which is to be expected, but hardly holds an edge long enough to be worth the effort. It does take a sweet edge, nonetheless. The PM steel takes a comparable edge, and holds it many, many times as long on abrasive timbers, such as Jarrah. A2 comes midway - very good edge (when used with appropriate waterstones), but is not the best at letting go the wire edge ... very "chewy".

I have yet to find a common steel that cannot take a good edge - it just needs the appropriate media and technique. Choosing a tool steel may be determined by the sharpening system one uses. For example, i would not recommend A2 or PM-V11 to. an oilstone user.

Travelling on a train from Yorkshire to London ..

Derek

Originally Posted by letaage

Hi all,

I picked up an old UK Stanley No. 6 on eBay last year and have slowly been restoring it. .....
Cheers,
Tom

Any idea how old, Tom?

You do not mention the condition and completeness of the body. Presume it old enough to be from the era when Stanley made good stuff. Not one of the plastic handled pastiches.

As Ian says, those thick Hock or Lee Valley blades on almost any plane results in a major improvement in performance. They just feel nicer.

Almost anything new with the Stanley logo is now built to a price and quality may be suboptimal.


Fair Winds

Graeme

Age is relative isn't it, I am pretty sure it is older than me!

It certainly isn't a collector's item, I bought it to fix it up as a user, but I obviously didn't look closely enough at the blade before bidding on it!

It has wooden handles so that should make it a 50's to 60's vintage, right?

I'm looking into a new Hock or LV blade and will keep the old one for rough work...

IMG_20160109_200342-1.jpg

Originally Posted by derekcohen

....... i would not recommend A2 or PM-V11 to an oilstone user.....

Derek, I wish you'd told me that about 4 or 5 years ago; could've saved me a deal of frustration! But I suppose a lesson learned through experience is the best lesson...

Originally Posted by derekcohen

....... I am curious about your sharpening stones and method ... really just trying to understand why you find honing PM-V11 more difficult than I experience. In theory, it should be similar to A2, although the grains in the PM steel are finer (I believe), and the edge is keener. That is my experience.......

There is nothing unusual about my sharpening. I had used oilstones all my woodworking life, until about 4 years ago, except for one brief affair with waterstones in the early 80s. It did not end amicably- they were horrible things, messy, soft, and utterly impractical, in my view! The stones I tried needed re-flattening after every use, so although they undoubtedly cut faster, the overall time spent fussing with the stones & cleaning up the mess blew it all out of proportion. They soon went to a new home.

So I went back to my Carborundum/Arkansas crew. I used a soft Arkansas for honing, and a hard (translucent) white Arkansas for 'polishing' backs & edges. On any of my old chisel & plane blades, and O1 type steels like my Hocks, they did an acceptable job, were quick enough to be practical, and they stayed flat for a very long time. But first an Academy blade (which I had custom-made to fit a Norris A5), then A2, and later PMV-11 steels, crept into my life. I struggled with all of these on my oilstones. A diamond plate helped with initial preparation, but eventually I realised the oilstones were not cutting it (so to speak), particularly with the PMV-11, which just wouldn't take what I'd consider a good edge off the stones at all.

I did some searching and quickly found it seemed to be common knowledge amongst those with common knowledge, that oilstones & A2 are not a happy couple. All the sources I consulted not only said waterstones were the way to go, but were adamant that the current waterstones are a far cry from the mud-soft things of yore. I put my prejudices aside, gritted my teeth and ordered a 2,000/8,000 combination Ohishi. Well, it's vastly better at staying flat, and any edge off the 8,000 grit is a far cry from anything I could get off the Arkansas, on any steel I own. The Ohishi doesn't need soaking (a huge plus, imo!) and although it wears much more slowly than the things that put me off 30 odd years ago, it still needs a lot of of attention compared with oilstones. Free-handing narrow blades requires a very delicate & accurate touch, and there've been a few scars made and a few bad words said as I re-programme my oil-stone brain. However, at least the equation now tips in their favour: less time sharpening + a bit of flattening time = about the same or slightly less time than I spent sharpening 'softer' steels with oilstones. Figure in the better edge & I'm very happy with that.

Now, as to my whinge about the edge on PMV-11. It definitely takes me a bit longer to hone to a satisfactory edge than any of my other aftermarket blades. Maybe it's just me, but if I don't put in some extra effort on the PMV, I'll get a sharp edge, that shaves easily, but feels a bit 'scratchy' and doesn't leave a 'polished' surface on the sorts of woods I generally plane. It's surprising to me, because the 'grain' is supposed to be finer in PMV compared with A2, but I find it easier to get a super clean edge on A2, and twice as easy again to sharpen O1. I use two #4 smoothers regularly, one carries a Hock blade, the other sports a PMV-11. Freshly sharpened, the Hock cuts more sweetly for the first dozen or so strokes (and no, it doesn't matter which plane they're in). As the Hock loses it's initial gloss, the PMV-11 'catches up' and there is little difference for a while, until the Hock starts to dull past what I will tolerate. The PMV goes chugging on for quite a while longer, but eventually, I realise it is just not performing up to scratch and needs attention. If I'm going to hoe into a very hard wood like Bluegum, the PMV gets the guernsey, but for something like Qld. Maple or Camphor Laurel, it's the Hock every time...

So while I concede that the PMV-11 can handle abrasive, siliceous woods like no other, the quality of the surface isn't necessarily what I like. It does deteriorate, even though it' still cutting freely enough. It's rather like carbide edges, the deterioration is so gradual that it takes you a while to realise you are working with a dull tool. The 'softer' steels let you know very quickly when they need to go back to the stone. As I've said on other occasions when these discussions come up, I don't regularly chew into woods like Jarrah and the stuff you're dealing with on a regular basis (we live amongst far more tractable cabinet woods over this side of the sandpit ), so longevity of edge-retention isn't as much of an issue for me as it is for you, perhaps. The after-market blades I first started using 25 or 30 years ago were such a quantum leap over my Stanleys (of any vintage) that I was already in heaven, and more & more I'm finding myself content with my O1 blades rather than the harder things (I'm probably getting smarter at avoiding 'tough' woods, too! ). Normally, I try to keep my planes at peak performance all the time, and don't use most blades for very long between honings. After so many years of doing it, dropping a blade out for a quick touch-up & resetting it is a matter of a few minutes on auto-pilot, and it's not unusual for me to re-hone several times in a morning if I'm doing a lot of planing. I've found the small extra effort of sharpening more frequently is repaid many times over by reduced effort pushing the darn things. Something my aging body very much appreciates!

Apologies for another long-winded reply, but I felt I needed to explain myself a bit. You can read it on your next boring train ride.....

Cheers,

Hi Ian

It sounds to me that your waterstone is not doing a good enough job at removing the serrations from the diamond stone. Hence the poorer surface you are getting from the PM blade. Its toughness comes through as it is not wearing, but the fine edge is not there.

There are waterstones and waterstones. Any of the ceramic stones would be a revelation to you. I would recommend the ones I currently use, which are better for confident sharpeners since they are very hard. These are the Medium and Ultra Fine Spyderco stones. Mine are 2" x 8" in size. I consider them the oilstones if the ceramic world. Try them.

Regards from Cornwall

Derek

Originally Posted by derekcohen

.......It sounds to me that your waterstone is not doing a good enough job at removing the serrations from the diamond stone. Hence the poorer surface you are getting from the PM blade. Its toughness comes through as it is not wearing, but the fine edge is not there.....

Derek, I think your diagnosis may be bang-on. Of course, the tougher steel needs more work to refine each previous 'grit'. I'm probably jumping too quickly from the diamond to the 8,000 grit. Works fine for softer steels, but needs more effort on the tough stuff. Makes perfect sense.

As it happens, I'm working on a slab of Bluegum today, so I'll pay more attention to how I proceed between grits.

Originally Posted by derekcohen

....... the Medium and Ultra Fine Spyderco stones. Mine are 2" x 8" in size. I consider them the oilstones if the ceramic world. Try them.....

Hmm, stays flat, needs no oil, no water, no nuthin' - sounds too easy! I just did a quick search, and there seems to be a huge variation in price, particularly for the ultra-fine. Who's a reliable & reasonable supplier in Aus??

Cheers,

Hi Ian

I cannot recall from whom I purchased the Spyderco stones. It was not from an Australian company as they were too expensive. May have been Amazon.

There are three choices: Medium, Fine and Ultra Fine. I start with either a Shapton 1000 or well run in Eze-lap Fine, then the Spyderco Medium and Ultra Fine. These stones cut anything, even M4!

A note about Spyderco stones. They need a little flattening to start. Use a Coarse diamond stone. Spyderco do not say what the grits are. I would rate the Medium at roughly 3-4000 and the Ultra Fine at about 8-10000. It is good enough not to need a finer stone. The stones are hard and resist any dishing, like an oil stone. They may be used dry, but I add a dab of water. Scrub them clean every now-and-then. You will like them.

Regards from Cornwall

Derek