Thread: Stanley 85 vs 112

Hi Ian - curious to know if you used the Veritas large scraper plane with the thin bendy blade or the thick A2 blade? Although more difficult to get a good burr, I'm wondering if the heavy blade might last longer in really tough timbers?

It's one of those tools that I only reach for occasionally, but I certainly don't regret buying it ! There is a bit of a learning curve for new players, but once you get it cutting nicely it is a pleasure to use

Derek, I feel compelled to mount a bit of a defense of scraping planes.

Hi Ian

.... and best wishes for the Festive Season first of all ...

The reasons you describe for using a scraper plane are perfectly sound to me. I think that we are discussing matters slightly cross purposes .... which of course offers up lots of interesting information one might not have otherwise considered.

It is always interesting to use a new timber. In my case at this time, it is USA Hard Maple (which in Oz - only - is referred to as Rock Maple. The Yanks do not use that term). This is for the kitchen doors I am presently building. Compared to the West Australian timbers I am used to, this is such wonderful wood to work: firm (but not "hard" - clearly we all have a different definition for that adjective), seems about a touch harder than Tassie Oak, but such clear and tight-grained wood .. oh, it is a delight. Yes, there is a little reversing grain that will catch out the jointer if taking too thick a shaving, but easily planed out, and the finish simply Glows! Those Yanks are so spoiled.

Now I cannot imagine needing a scraper plane on wood such as this. Nevertheless, when I read some of the USA-based fori, a common recommendation for planing hardwood is a scraper plane. Why? You tell me. I imagine that wood difficulty ratings are in the eye of the beholder, and scraper planes are viewed as a solution for all situations. From your description of Luke planing FRG, clearly a time arrived when one was needed. I'd have pulled one out myself - or, rather, have turned to card scrapers (isn't that a Yank term ... we should call them cabinet scrapers ... that is what I have always done. However, I am aware it may cause some confusion for some, and so use a lesser term).

Anyway, there is nothing wrong with purchasing a scraper plane in my book. I just wanted to emphasise that. Plus, for those curious, there is an article on my website comparing thick vs thin blades in a #112 .

Regards from Perth

Derek

Originally Posted by Bushmiller

...I have it in my mind that you have an HNT Gordon plane or two. If that is correct, you may recall you can reverse the blade to bevel up...

Very true, and there was a time when I had one of his Asian inspired bench planes. That was a huge reason I was sold on the design, but, ultimately, I decided I'm a Stanley man so I released that plane back into the wild. Currently, while I own many HNTG planes, the only one I have that doesn't have a skewed, hollow, or round blade is a 1" shoulder plane. While you're right, and it could be used in scraper mode, its narrowness would make it a bit inefficient.

And absolutely the same back to you, as well as everyone reading this thread:

Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays, folks. I had a pretty good one (tool reviews to follow!), and I hope everyone else did as well.

Cheers,
Luke

Originally Posted by Mr Brush

Hi Ian - curious to know if you used the Veritas large scraper plane with the thin bendy blade or the thick A2 blade? Although more difficult to get a good burr, I'm wondering if the heavy blade might last longer in really tough timbers?.....

I only have the 'thin' blade that came with it, Mr. B. I have thought about getting a thick blade, and I probably will some day. The thick blade is A2 and I'm not sure you can burr that very successfully. I'm sure they used to recommend using this blade straight off the stone, but it doesn't say anything about that on the LV site currently.

As for lasting longer, I rather doubt that blade thickness would have any bearing on that, but it should last a bit longer because it is harder than the thin blade....

Cheers,

I came across this while checking out the LV setup instructions for their scraper plane - but is the Lie Nielsen thick blade made from A2 as well?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHcgZiEOWPU

Must admit I've never tried this. I've always sharpened the heavy LV scraper blade with 45 degree bevel and a small microbevel. I'll have to see if a carbide burnisher has any effect on an A2 edge....

I had a Stanley 112. I found it to be less useful than I had thought it would be. Mainly because you have to have a really super level surface for it to work because of the large surface area of the tool.

I think the regular 80 style tool is more useful, unless you intend to flatten boards by scraping!

Originally Posted by Luke Maddux

I've got a growing interest in owning a scraper plane.

It looks to me that there are a few persistent styles. I've decided I don't want a Stanley 80, which is the one that looks kind of like a spokeshave. I'd prefer one that handles like a bench plane.

So, from what I can tell, that leaves two, at least in the Stanley era realm.

The first is the No. 112, which has been remade by both Lie Nielsen and Lee Valley, and the other is the No. 85.

I'd be interested to hear any opinions of those who have used both. Pros and cons, anyone?

Any comparisons between the old Stanleys and the currently manufactured versions by LN and LV?

Many thanks!

Luke

Hi Luke

If you can get yourself across the border and into Alberta you're welcome to have a play with my nest of scraper planes.

in terms of use, I hardly ever have a need to use an #85 -- mostly because I rarely need the ability to get right up to an edge.

the #80 is possibly the most versatile. My understanding is that as supplied, the #80's blade was straight on one edge and slightly crowned on the other. The straight edge was ground to 45 degrees and had a bur raised, the crowned edge was at 90 degrees and excelled at scraping glue from longitudinal joints. Many #80s in the wild are missing the crowned edge to the blade.

as others have said the #112 is great on large surfaces, but perhaps too large on smaller scale work I believe that Kunz, Lee Valley and Lie Nielsen are the current makers, but there may be a copy out of China badged Wood River or Quansheng, etc.

The scraper I've used most frequently is the #212. It might just be the scale of pieces I've been working but I rather like the fact that it fits in one hand. So far I've resisted the temptation to buy Lee Valley's version of the small scraper plane.

Originally Posted by ian

.... My understanding is that as supplied, the #80's blade was straight on one edge and slightly crowned on the other. The straight edge was ground to 45 degrees and had a bur raised, the crowned edge was at 90 degrees and excelled at scraping glue from longitudinal joints. Many #80s in the wild are missing the crowned edge to the blade......

Just a word of caution. Since I acquired my LV version of the 112, my #80 is relegated largely to jobs like scraping excess glue from long joints. It does indeed make a very good fist of this job. I mostly use hide glue, and as long as I scrape the excess off within a day or two while it's still a bit soft, all is usually well. But if, for some reason, I don't get around to doing it for some time, and the glue has become very hard, there's a good chance of ripping off chunks of glue with wood attached, if I go at it at all aggressively. This is not a pleasing effect if it happens on a 'show' surface, so I would advise caution in using a crowned blade for this task - it will excell, alright, but you might get more than you bargained for. When doing the show side, I often use a well-sharpened & burred card scraper if I'm at all worried about the glue tearing wood off, or at the very least, take gentle, light passes with the 80.

Cheers,

Originally Posted by Mr Brush

I came across this while checking out the LV setup instructions for their scraper plane - but is the Lie Nielsen thick blade made from A2 as well?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHcgZiEOWPU

Must admit I've never tried this. I've always sharpened the heavy LV scraper blade with 45 degree bevel and a small microbevel. I'll have to see if a carbide burnisher has any effect on an A2 edge....

Sorry for the tardy reply, but only just had time to look at the video. It's a bit hubristic of me to argue with the LN rep., but I would never burnish a scraper blade of any description to 90 deg - somewhere between 86-88 is ample. To get such a blade to cut nicely will require it to be leaned over to too great an angle - try it with a card scraper sometime & you'll soon see what I mean. I think he's overdoing it, which may explain his comment that he's happy to get 'dust', as long as it's "cutting". I'm not - I like to see nice, full-width (or nearly full width) shavings rolling out of the mouth. It looks like he's scraping hard Maple, in the video, which should shave easily, with little or no 'dust'..

If you use a blade without a burr, the best cutting angle will be a lot steeper, barely past 90 degrees, on most hard woods.

Cheers,

Originally Posted by IanW

...he's happy to get 'dust'...

I didn't watch the video, but I'm with you, Ian. Dust is no bueno. If anything, that indicates to me that it's NOT cutting. Dust is the indicator I look for that tells me it's time for a new burr.