Thread: Stanley 85 vs 112

I have the large LV scraper plane, which actually combines the function of the Stanley 112 and 85 - it comes with the flexible blade, but has the option of the thick rigid blade too. I got both with mine (what was I thinking?).

Have to say I use the flexible blade about 90% of the time. Much easier to form a good burr on the edge, and the flexing action takes care of adjustments. Combined with the variable blade angle, this makes set up a breeze. The thick rigid blade is much more finicky as regards getting a good burr, and always takes me ages to set up correctly. When it works it is fantastic (much less chatter than the thin blade).

I've had limited use of both hand held scrapers and the #80. I did have a #112 with a broken casting that I fondled, but never got to use. The #80 was put to work finishing a highly figured Queensland Maple table top. I found it quite ergonomic and it saved me burnt bent fingers. I think the spokeshave layout allowed a clearer view of proceedings and greater directional control than the #112 might have when moving over large quilted areas.

If you can find a cheap #80 easily, I would suggest you give that a try first, you might find you do not dislike the spokeshave hold.

I've used a few examples of the old Stanley #80 too - very versatile, and easier on the hands than a simple scraper if you are covering large areas.

One benefit of the LV large scraper plane is heft; it is a weighty beast, which I like in a scraper (and in a smoothing plane, come to that). Not sure how it compares to the original Stanley models in this respect.

The old "fridge magnet on the back of the scraper" trick will stop your thumbs catching fire with a regular card scraper, but a #80 is much nicer to use.....

Luke, my first scraper "plane" was an 80, and it was/is a very useful tool. Once you get the hang of it, it can do an excellent job, but it has some quirks. One is to want to tip forward if it suddenly catches on a knot, which can cause a nasty ding in your work. The longer toe on the Veritas version is said to prevent that. The other quirk is due to the short sole - it is easy to tip it over the edge when finishing strokes, which can also cause a nasty scar. You can put that down to operator error rather than a tool fault, I suppose, but it's quite easy to do, as I discovered very early on. Over the years I came to terms with it & it served me well - it's done some some pretty serious jobs, like getting a kitchen's worth of NG Rosewood benchtops presentable. The rowed grain in that stuff can defeat most regular planes and it would have been a nightmare of a job with a card scraper. So don't discount the 80 type altogether, it's a less costly way to put your toe in the water if you are not sure you'll get your money's worth out of the bigger plane. If you did decide to try one, maybe there are used versions of the Veritas to be had over your way?.

The 112 or one of its clones is the tool to go for if you plan to be doing lots of scraping of largish areas. It doesn't necessarily do a better job than an 80, but I think it's a lot nicer to use for a big area. The heft keeps it on the job & cutting evenly, and I find the plane-like configuration is more comfortable to work with when you are up for a serious scraping session. I have never used an 85, but my impression is that it's more equivalent to a mini-smoother that you use for cleaning up very small areas that would cause too much work with the larger-soled plane, or for levelling banding, etc. For these jobs, I'd just use a card scraper, so it's never been a tool I felt I couldn't live without.

The cost/benefit ratio of any scraping plane is difficult to calculate. They aren't needed much (or maybe not at all if you are wise & try to stick to 'proper' woods ), if your bench-planes are performing up to scratch. I do use card scrapers almost every day, but my Veritas 112 type comes out only a few times per year. When I see it sitting in the cupboard with a thin film of dust on it, I sometimes wonder why I splashed out so much on a tool which sees so little use. However, there are times when I'm so glad I did! If I have more than a couple of square feet of scraping to be done, the 112 is in its element. Apart from the comfort it is much easier to keep the surface dead flat, which is harder to do with a card scraper...

Cheers,

One of my perceived advantages of the 85 is that it's a full width cutter. It can smooth up against a corner.

With that said, you're right. It makes more sense to have the 112 for large surfaces and then to switch back to a card scraper when it becomes too tight to work it into a corner. Choosing the more narrow plane with the full width cutter would make the main job of the plane less efficient in an effort to make something you're likely to do a handful of times ever more efficient.

Good to know!

It's also good to know that the cheaper option is, in this case, likely the more practical.

Cheers,
Luke

Luke, my opinion is similar to Ian's. I own Stanley #112 and #80, and rarely use either. In fact, I cannot recall when they were last used.

I do want to ask you why you want a scraper plane? It seems to me that most hand plane users get to a point where they want one or two. There are some who swear by them and use them on all projects. My reaction to this is that they must like sharpening (!), or have limited handplane skillls.

There red is very little that a scraper plane can do that a well-set-up handplane cannot do. The finish off a scraper plane is not in the same league as a handplane. Plus you will struggle to use one on softer woods. A BD plane with a closed chipbreaker is generally all one needs in the worst of grains. A high angle in a BU plane come a close second. Both will leave a burnished-looking finished compared to the dull matte of the scraper plane.

I do use card scrapers, but less because the piece needs scraping, and more because the cards are small and easily managed in smaller areas. Card scrapers are easy to hone and can peel off shavings like a handplane. One scraper I do recommend that you buy or make - I made my own from a section of a 1/8" plane blade - is the one first produced by Stew Mac (in the USA) ....



This scraper is the easiest thing to sharpen, especially with the CBN wheel you have just purchased - simply grind a burr. That's all.



Best wishes for the Festive Season

Regards from Perth

Derek

I prefer to freehand with a card scraper . Greater freedom to adjust the flex and approach angle to suit the type of shaving your chasing. Each to their own preference.

I have an 85 and it's definitely more of a collector than a user, but the full width blade and tilting handles do make it pretty much the only option in very specific circumstances. The blade angle on the 112 is far more adjustable, the 85 only has a small grub screw in the base of the frog that will give you a few degrees at best. The 85 is quite fragile around the holes in the sides (I may or may not have found this out myself ); another reason it's best left in the display cabinet. Finally, you need small hands to use an 85; if you can't comfortably hold a No.3 plane like a proper bench plane (whole hand around the back tote), you probably won't enjoy using the 85

Originally Posted by elanjacobs

I have an 85 and it's definitely more of a collector than a user, but the full width blade and tilting handles do make it pretty much the only option in very specific circumstances. The blade angle on the 112 is far more adjustable, the 85 only has a small grub screw in the base of the frog that will give you a few degrees at best. The 85 is quite fragile around the holes in the sides (I may or may not have found this out myself ); another reason it's best left in the display cabinet. Finally, you need small hands to use an 85; if you can't comfortably hold a No.3 plane like a proper bench plane (whole hand around the back tote), you probably won't enjoy using the 85

Thanks for that comment on the size of the 85, I recently sold my #3 because it was too small to comfortably use so I'll scratch the 85 off my list. Actually this whole discussion has been quite good, I'm going to get some simple scrapers and figure them out before I consider getting a scraper plane.

Derek,

A big part of it is just wanting to try them out, but I guess it just seems like a good way to get consistent results on a large surface. I don't scrape every project, but if the wood is hard and I've not worked with it much I'll often give it a try just to see what kind of results I can get. A glued panel with boards that have different grain directions is a likely candidate for trying out the scraper, but I know a cap iron can usually take care of this.

For something like a hard eucalypt, it seems like they would be super useful to handle wavy grain. As often as you work with nice Jarrah I'm surprised yours don't see more use.

It's a want, not a need. The card scrapers I have now work great, and I can sharpen them confidently, so it's nothing I need to run out and buy. As mentioned, it's definitely trying a new tool concept that is part of the appeal.

Cheers,
Luke

Originally Posted by Luke Maddux

Derek ...

For something like a hard eucalypt, it seems like they would be super useful to handle wavy grain. As often as you work with nice Jarrah I'm surprised yours don't see more use...


Cheers,
Luke

As mentioned, Luke, I can make a handplane do a better job. So could you .... but I do relate to the desire to experiment with new tools

Regards from Perth

Derek

Luke, I own the Kunz versions of #80 and #112 and I bought them because of the problems I had with Forest red gum. They did exactly what I expect them to do. Will I find another use for them? definitely, I plan to use them around knots in some of my other timber as well as the rest of my FRG. Would I be able to do FRG with a super sharp plane, I feel I could most of the time but once in a while the contra grain will make the experience extremely frustrating. I also know that I would have to sharpen my plane iron a lot more often than the scraper. I don't know anything about the #85. But I feel that both the #80 and #112 together meets my needs quite well. #80 more for smoothing and #112 more for leveling. As a bonus, the skills that I develop in sharpening the scrapers is now being used to sharpen my paint scrapers which I will use when I paint my windows.

Luke

I can't offer any thoughts on the scraper planes as I have never used them. However, I have it in my mind that you have an HNT Gordon plane or two. If that is correct, you may recall you can reverse the blade to bevel up and this will give you around an 85 deg angle depending on which model you are using.

In fact Terry makes a deliberate mention of this in the descriptions of his planes

All the best for the festive season.

Regards
Paul