Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 18
  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    Blue Mountains, Australia
    Posts
    462

    Default Stanley bench planes - a question about later Made in England types

    I've been accumulating an arsenal of bench planes as my workshop grows. Mostly Stanleys and Records. I will narrow them down once I get a good stable of 3 thru 7.

    Recently a couple of garage sales yielded a Nos 3, 4 1/2 and 5 in black japanned 'Made in England' bodies with black plastic handles and knobs. The handle or 'tote' on each has Stanley stamped into them. Not too nice.

    The Nos 3 and 4 1/2 also have one-piece black painted steel slotted panhead bolts for their handles and knob as opposed to the usual brass nut with steel bolt.
    They all have the steel/alloy lateral adjuster knob instead of the earlier and later brass.

    The strangest feature on all three planes is the absence of a frog adjusting screw. Nothing but steel on the frogs and bodies. Weird!

    Since they don't have the 80s G12-00x stamp I'm guessing they are a 70s period low-rent type?
    The website Stanley English Type Study Draft | TimeTestedTools
    lists English types with plastic handles but none missing the frog adjuster screws.

    So are these a sub-type English Stanley? Type 4b?

    Cheers, Vaughan

    PS they all came with Stanley Made in Australia irons (like almost all old planes I find it seems irrespective of their English make)

    IMG20170811204749-1843x1382.jpg
    IMG20170811204804-1843x1382.jpg
    IMG20170811204833-1843x1382.jpg
    IMG20170811204847-1843x1382.jpg
    IMG20170811204927-1843x1382.jpg

    The No. 5 has a previous owner's yellow paint ID and the No. 3 has a new brass replacement lateral adjuster knob.

  2. # ADS
    Google Adsense Advertisement
    Join Date
    Always
    Location
    Advertising world
    Posts
    Many





     
  3. #2
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    Blue Mountains, Australia
    Posts
    462

  4. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Bundaberg
    Age
    54
    Posts
    3,402

    Default

    Until now the only English Stanley's I'd ever seen without the frog adjustment screws were their "handyman" series; I can only imagine that these were the ultimate in 1980's cost cutting.

    I've never been real keen on the English Stanleys; with the posible exception of the early 4-1/2 due to it's considerable extra mass over the US version. I have one but it may be replaced with a pre '56 Record as the build quality is higher. Once the Record is fettled I'll do a comparison and keep the better one.
    Nothing succeeds like a budgie without a beak.

  5. #4
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Wonthaggi
    Posts
    256

    Default

    There's a school of thought that these more recent planes are not a bad entry point.

    Somewhat more difficult to set up than an older, more precisely engineered plane. But it can be done, and in doing so the user learns things it is desirable to know in the long run.

    As for the lack of frog adjusting screw? It's no great big deal. In truth, it's a device which is very seldom used. And if used, probably only used once. One of those things that if it had never been invented, hardly anyone would miss it.

    One other small positive. Newer planes are generally easy to resell if you move on. There are enough buyers out there who will look at superficial condition and "newness" first. I move a fair number of planes out of garage and farm sales back into the workplace; and the best price I've ever got for a number 4, which can be difficult to sell, was for a very good condition but quite recent plane. Because to the uneducated eye it looked better than the much superior 1920 ish 4s which can be had pretty much any day for under $40.

  6. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Brisbane (western suburbs)
    Age
    77
    Posts
    12,093

    Default

    The pic of the frog bed on the yellow-painted one tells a story, doesn't it? Just a few high spots on the casting that are ground off to form a series of flats to mate with the frog. I guess a few minutes saved on the grinding of each plane adds up to lots more dividend for the shareholders over a few hundred thousand planes!

    I've got an English #4, not sure of its vintage, but it came with wooden handles, so pre-plastic era. It has a bit more contact area on its frog than the one above, and has fettled up into a very nice little plane - it's one of my most-used planes...

    Cheers,
    IW

  7. #6
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    Blue Mountains, Australia
    Posts
    462

    Default

    Thanks for the replies.
    I had too thought that perhaps these were 70s or 80s Handyman planes in disguise, but I've never seen a Stanley Handyman plane in the flesh to really know for sure. Since I got these from 3 different owners (2 in Sydney, 1 in North QLD) I can rule out aftermarket adaptation/rebranding. Stanley must have decided to cheapen their range at sone point.

    Indeed the frog to body 'mating points' are very small, uneven and rough. I need to work on smoothing them out a little. I will lap the frogs tomorrow.

    The lack of a frog adjuster doesn't bother me (I really don't touch it ever) but I thought was unusual and odd for 'full-fledged' Stanley Baileys!

    As a new plane user and on a garage sale/junk shop budget these three are pretty good. I have at least 6 good quality 40s and 50s era No.4 Stanley and Records so I instantly appreciate the finer qualities of the earlier planes, sure. The wood handles and frog/body mates are so much better and cleaner.

    But honestly, for me (so far) these three will do okay alongside my venerable No. 4 and No. 220s. Their blades have honed nicely and unless I find some decent earlier versions for cheap I probably won't go past these planes.

    Maybe I replace the plastic handles and crappy bolts though...

    Cheers, Vaughan

  8. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    2,205

    Default

    These are very similar to what we were making and selling here in Oz in 1980 when I worked for Stanley.
    At least they didn't copy our die cast frogs only the plastic handles.
    The split 'Y' lever and the lateral lever with the joggle instead of a disc were used here also.
    I never could understand the need for the ribs on the bodies of the English 5 and larger planes.
    Casting technology sure went backwards from the 140 year old prelat 5 I use.
    H.
    Jimcracks for the rich and/or wealthy. (aka GKB '88)

  9. #8
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    Blue Mountains, Australia
    Posts
    462

    Default

    Thanks Henry.
    Seems like the No.5 here was somewhat transitional in this tiny sample since it has the 'normal' brass nuts and steel bolts for the handle and knob and also the later style disc on the frog's lateral lever adjuster.

    Do you know if Stanley Australia assembled these for the Aussie market from English cast bodies and frogs and Stanley Australia irons and handles, etc.? An Aussie-Brit mix?

    Vaughan

  10. #9
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Wonthaggi
    Posts
    256

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dubrosa22 View Post
    Thanks Henry.
    Seems like the No.5 here was somewhat transitional in this tiny sample since it has the 'normal' brass nuts and steel bolts for the handle and knob and also the later style disc on the frog's lateral lever adjuster.
    You may be right, but my first thought would not be transitional, it would be Plane-en-Stein.

    Brass caps in plastic handles in particular sounds very after market.

  11. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    2,205

    Default

    Vaughan,
    In 1980 from memory Stanley were still making complete planes here in Oz.
    They had a factory at Nunawading in Victoria and Hobart in Tas.
    They started making planes here after WW11 with Titan and were government funded to employ returned servicemen.
    Stanley bought up Turner after the 60s credit squeeze and that's where the plastic handles and die cast frogs came from.
    Turner had previously bought out Pope who were the originators of the die cast frogs.(These were only for the 2" wide planes ie 4s and 5s.)
    Turner who made a wide range of tools had pioneered plastic handled screwdrivers and then of course plane handles.
    H.
    Jimcracks for the rich and/or wealthy. (aka GKB '88)

  12. #11
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    Blue Mountains, Australia
    Posts
    462

    Default

    Thanks Henry, the information is much appreciated.

    These are el cheapo English Stanley planes I guess.... well they work well enough for me.

    V

  13. #12
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    2,205

    Default A new frog after 37 years looking.

    I need to change that statement that die cast frogs were only used on the 2” wide No4 and 5 planes by Pope, Turner and Stanley Australia.
    I was selling a few planes at the TTTG meeting the other night and there was a Falcon Pope No 4 1/2 amongst them.
    I sold it to one of our members and on picking it up realised it had a die cast frog.
    I grabbed the iPad and took the photos below.
    Also of the Turner No 4 beside it with Berg iron which was original as far as I know.
    Has anyone else ever noticed die cast frogs in any 2 3/8” wide Australian made planes.
    This opens up a whole new can of worms as the 4 1/2, 5 1/2, 6 and 7 size Pope, Turner and/or Australian made Stanley could have these bendable el cheapo frogs in them.
    H.
    Jimcracks for the rich and/or wealthy. (aka GKB '88)

  14. #13
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Brisbane (western suburbs)
    Age
    77
    Posts
    12,093

    Default

    Henry, it always puzzles me when I see belled-over tops on blades in screw-adjuster planes. I cannot imagine why anyone would feel the necessity to hammer their blade into position. P'raps it was used in a woody or an adjuster-less plane of some sort, previously? Or were some blokes just too impatient to use the adjuster wheel & preferred to belt the blade with a hammer???

    Cheers,
    IW

  15. #14
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    2,205

    Default

    I couldn’t agree more Ian.
    Especially on that Turner, the blade is worth more than the plane except for that butchery.
    Turner must have supplied their planes with Berg irons before making their own surely.
    Offering them as an upgrade wouldn’t have made sense as they were making the high speed steel tipped irons that Stanley Australia continued on with after the takeover.
    H.
    Last edited by clear out; 14th June 2018 at 01:46 PM. Reason: More info
    Jimcracks for the rich and/or wealthy. (aka GKB '88)

  16. #15
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    Perth
    Posts
    407

    Default

    Maybe the blade was taken out and used as a wide chisel with a steel hammer to make the mushroomed tops? It doesn't make sense otherwise.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Stanley Bailey No4 Plane Made in England
    By yvan in forum ANTIQUE AND COLLECTABLE TOOLS
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 7th March 2015, 07:48 AM
  2. Stanley Type 10, "Made in England"???
    By scoobs6170 in forum HAND TOOLS - UNPOWERED
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 17th November 2008, 08:57 PM
  3. Replies: 18
    Last Post: 14th June 2005, 09:56 PM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •